Housing and Planning Bill (Second sitting)

Andrew Griffiths Excerpts

Tuesday 10th November 2015 Public Bill Committees

[Seema Kennedy]

Q 142 This is for a first-time buyer.

Campbell Robb: Indeed. The mix of starter homes includes family homes as well, so there is a price range. We are not sure yet; we are still waiting to hear what range of types of starter homes will come forward from builders and from the Government, because there will be a range of variations.

[Andrew Griffiths (Burton) (Con)]

Q 143 Mr Robb, may I come back to you on that? I am sure you would not want to leave the Committee with the wrong impression.

Campbell Robb: Absolutely not.

[Andrew Griffiths]

You talk about pockets of the country where prices would be lower. Are you not actually talking about the vast majority of the country? In the midlands, the north-east, the north-west, there are huge swathes of the country where starter homes at 80% of market value, perhaps coupled with Help to Buy, help with the deposit, are hugely affordable for the vast majority of first-time buyers.

Campbell Robb: As I said, we estimate that 60% would be unaffordable, 40% would be affordable, definitely. It depends, also, on where people want to buy. Not all those areas are where people want to move to jobs. As members of the Committee will know from their own constituencies, it is a challenge for young people to find work. Prices in Birmingham and the west midlands, around those hubs of employment, are going up. So, yes, by our estimate it will be 40% of the country. It is very positive, as I said earlier, for those that can get it. Our point was that, on our analysis, which we are very happy to share and which we continue to look at, on our first look at it, it looked like there are significant parts of the country and certain parts of the population who would not be able to afford it. That does not need to be the intention of the policy, but in terms of the clients we work with and getting a lot of people on to the housing ladder, we felt that this policy could go further than it did.

[Andrew Griffiths]

Q 144 Can you share some more of the specific evidence that you have? You seem to be talking in generalities, but focused on the south-east. Could you be clearer where those figures are coming from? For instance, I look at my own constituency of Burton upon Trent. You talk about high employment areas; we have record low employment in Burton and a starter home in my constituency, at 20% cheaper than market value, coupled with help with a deposit, would be hugely affordable to people on an average income of £20,000 or £25,000. Can you share with us the evidence, the statistics that you have that point to this not being affordable for the vast majority of people?

Campbell Robb: As I said, when you take into account the population density in the south-east and all around there as against Burton, you get to higher numbers as a natural consequence of people who will not be able to afford it. That is not to say that it is not working and could not work in Burton. I do not dispute that it may be excellent in your constituency to get a certain type of person on average income; that is great.

We looked at this policy nationally and against national statistics. I am happy to share and look at what more we can do to break them down. They are based on Government statistics and analysis. I am happy to share with the Committee and will go away and ensure that we send as much detail as we can back to the Committee.

I do not dispute that in certain areas of the country it will be affordable for some people, but over the whole piece of the national policy, which it is, we were concerned about certain areas—60% of our analysis. I would also have to look at the national living wage, which was the point we were making, because that is another group of people, not on the average wage, to see if this is affordable for them. I absolutely take it that it may be useful for your constituents.

[Andrew Griffiths]

Q 145 Could you share those numbers, so we can get some further analysis?

Campbell Robb: I am absolutely happy to do that.

[Mr Thomas]

Q 146 On that point, I appreciate you are going to send some more information about affordability in Burton upon Trent. I wonder if you could look—

Campbell Robb: I will send as much of the breakdown as I can give.

--- Later in debate ---

[Maria Caulfield]

Q 202 I am slightly concerned about that. With the modules that we have been using, we can build a three or four-bedroomed house for less than £30,000 in 18 weeks. They are quick and cheap to build. I am surprised if you have not looked at that route at all.

Mark Patchitt: A lot of the modular solutions have very good headlines—I don’t wish to dispute the figures—but we found £60,000 per house didn’t include the garden, the fencing or the roofing in one instance. We have looked into a number of schemes, and I believe it is a very good point. We should be looking at off-site and modular housing. I really believe it has its place going forward if we are going to create the million homes that we are aspiring to.

[Andrew Griffiths]

Q 203 All of the panel have discussed the £30,000 as the limit for pay to stay. The Government are consulting on a paper or a gradual system that could even have regional variations. Could the panel tell us if you have contributed to that consultation and, if so, what have you said?

Tim Pinder: We have, yes. Some of our suggestions are around perhaps starting a taper at a rent that is earning 25% above the existing £30,000 threshold, so there is clear blue water between them—perhaps as a taper similar to the rent convergence that housing associations and local authorities adhered to over recent years, which means that we set a rent as a target that we want to get to over, say, a five-year period and the rent increases by £5 per year until we get there. Those are some of our ideas.

Mark Patchitt: We have contributed. In terms of the taper, we are concerned that £30,000 is on the low side. The difference for some of our residents, for example in Bromley, between what they would have to pay as a market rent and what they currently pay today would be an enormous jump. That £30,000 threshold in 2020 is two people on minimum wage.

[Andrew Griffiths]

Q 204 Have you made a specific suggestion on what the taper should be?

Mark Patchitt: We have not. We would prefer it to be a higher threshold.

Sue Chalkley: We have not yet. I would not imagine that we would make a specific suggestion about the taper. We will probably be majoring on the impact on rural communities.

David Montague: We will make a submission. We believe in a higher threshold. More importantly, we believe that pay to stay should be voluntary and it should be part of the general flexibility for housing associations to set their rates.

[The Chair]

We thank the panel very much indeed for their evidence. I hope you do not mind me curtailing it slightly but the business of the House demands that we should do so. Thank you for coming in. Will the next panel take their places with no undue delay?

Examination of witnesses

Carolyn Uphill, David Smith and David Cox gave evidence.