EU Working Time Directive (NHS)

Debate between Andrea Leadsom and Simon Burns

Thursday 26th April 2012 Westminster Hall

[Andrea Leadsom]

That is very interesting. Clearly, my hon. Friend’s contractual employment was not correct because she should not have been asked that question at the same time as signing the contract.

I would like to cite a case study of a junior doctor who was employed under the working time directive in foundation training between 2009 and 2011. This is his story:

“When I was on my surgical placement as part of my training, we were told by the hospital to take a mandatory ‘zero hours’ day off every week, as we were working 8 am to 6 pm on the other weekdays, as well as some longer on-call days and on-call weekends at times. The purpose was to keep our average working week within the 48-hour limit.”

That is utterly bizarre.

“We rotated who took the day off among our team, but this meant that on any particular day only one or two doctors would know the patients who had been admitted the day before. However, those particular doctors might not be there the next day, so would have to hand over patient information to a colleague. Unsurprisingly, much information was ‘lost in translation’. Trainee doctors would also not know which registrar, or even consultant, to expect on any particular day, due to the irregular working patterns of these people also caused by the limits on working time.

Furthermore, patients no longer knew who would see them on the ward round. The effect was poor patient experience, as patients were unable to build a rapport with individual doctors. People would be very frustrated that the doctors seeing them did not know what the same medical team had planned/achieved the day before.

There is also much less time for on-the-job training for junior doctors. This was compounded by the fact that we often had to cover for other trainees who were rostered off due to the working time directive, missing our regular teaching sessions. Lack of training time has made it difficult for us to establish a rapport with our seniors, and gain adequate support in terms of mentorship and career advice. In fact, trainee doctors no longer feel that we ‘belong’ to a team, given the new shift patterns that have broken up teams of trainee doctors and their seniors. Morale is certainly lower and junior doctor sickness rates much higher. This is a negative spiral—more doctors off means that when you do turn up, your working day is more hectic and stressful, and you are much more likely to fall ill and take time off yourself.

Diary carding exercises (whereby doctors record the actual hours they work) have shown almost universally high rates of non-compliance with the working time directive. During my general medicine attachment in training, I ended up working 1.5 to to 2 extra hours (unpaid) per day and was consistently non-compliant…Doctors that do opt out of the 48-hour limit on the working week are sometimes not sure whether they will be remunerated appropriately for their time.”

That is interesting and highlights some of the problems faced by doctors who are trying to do the right thing by their patients. Of course, this is not only about doctors but about patients. My right hon. Friend the Minister will be aware of two recent cases where coroners have recorded problems associated with the working time directive. They said that it impacted on the ability of doctors to understand what was going on with patients, and that was one of the factors that caused the untimely death of a patient. The other case involved a patient undergoing a routine operation.

Let me quickly turn to the solutions.

[The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon Burns)]

It might be helpful if I give my hon. Friend the answer to her question about when one can opt out and whether one gets paid. A doctor can opt out at any time with the agreement of the employer, and the junior doctors are expected to work up to 56 hours because of their contracts. If they work more than 56 hours and it is agreed, they will be paid for those hours.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that important clarification. He will note the experience of the case study that I have just read out. There is an uncertainty about payment for extra hours and the recording of extra hours. That is clearly an issue that needs to be resolved at the sharp end, if not in the principle.

[Mr Burns]

If it is of any help to my hon. Friend, I will re-clarify the matter. Junior doctors will be paid for hours over the 56 hours in their contract, but it is only with the authorisation of the employer that they can work those hours.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West pointed out, representatives of doctors and NHS staff do not agree among themselves about whether they support the European working time directive. Certainly, the Royal College of Physicians, NHS Employers and the Royal College of Surgeons are concerned not only that the working time directive causes a problem for doctors and patients, but that it does not do what it sets out to do, which is to deal with the exhaustion of doctors themselves. The Royal College of Surgeons says:

“We know from our members that working in a full shift pattern is more tiring when compared to working using an ‘on-call’ system, and creates a working environment that is impairing to patient safety.”

The British Medical Association believes that the European working time directive is entirely right in all of its manifestations. Patient and doctor representatives need to resolve the question of where they stand, as representatives of health service workers, on the implications of the working time directive.

Turning to the options for change, the Fresh Start project has done a great deal of work on this. Certainly, there are things Britain could do in isolation to try to improve the situation, and we have heard about some of them today. Some doctors in other European Union countries have two contracts, which has been used as a way of getting round the working time directive. We have heard about all sorts of workarounds that Britain does not tend to use, and the Government might want to consider what other countries have done. Certainly, MEPs in Europe have told me that some doctors will take on two 48-hour contracts, which seems to be going back to dangerous practice. Nevertheless, if an impossible situation is created, we end up with people just trying to defeat the problems.

A far more likely scenario is that we negotiate for change with other members that are unhappy with the consequences of the working time directive. We should get together with the 16 other member states that are determined to see change and that have negotiated an opt-out, so that we can get the directive changed specifically in relation to the NHS and make our economy more flexible.

What we are proposing is a concrete option for change. At the time of the European members’ attempt to get their recent fiscal consolidation agreement into the main treaties, there will be an opportunity for Britain to go to the EU Council with its own proposal for change. This is a clear opportunity, which has arisen from the need for fiscal consolidation in other EU countries, for Britain to prepare a list of changes to various elements of the treaties that it would like to see, and to go all out to negotiate those changes when the time comes, in three or four years. In line with the proposal put forward at the all-party parliamentary group for European reform, I recommend a triple lock whereby Britain arranges to opt out.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Burns]

I am tempted to go down that path, because I have considerable sympathy with my hon. Friend. However, time is short and I do not want to upset you, Mr Howarth. I will avoid temptation and keep myself on the straight and narrow.

We could not be clearer about how we want things to move forward. In the coalition agreement almost two years ago, the Government resolved to limit the application of the working time directive in the NHS. That position has not changed. We still believe strongly that working people should be able to work the hours they want. That means they should be able to choose to opt out of the directive’s limit on working hours. However, no one wants a situation where tired doctors are working for far too long, and for that reason it is important that doctors who choose to opt out, and their employers, agree working hours that ensure that patients are not at risk. A common thread running through the contribution of every hon. Member was the importance and necessity of not returning to what is known as the bad old days. Nobody on this side of the House, in any shape or form, would want that to happen. However, it is equally viable and intellectually respectable to argue for more flexibility, as the current situation —as highlighted in many speeches—is causing problems for the NHS. That has to be done in an ordered way. We cannot unilaterally take any action that would compromise the legality of how the European Union works, our contribution and how we operate within the EU.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Does my right hon. Friend recognise that Sweden agreed legally to join the euro and has failed to do so, and so our inability to implement all our commitments might be seen by some as trivial in comparison?

[Mr Burns]

My hon. Friend makes an interesting point that could tempt me, but I will not be tempted. Each member state of the European Union is answerable for its decisions and behaviour. I believe that if one is a member of an organisation and has signed up and committed oneself to certain procedures and legal ways to do business, it is only right that the British Government—