Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Kemi Badenoch

Thursday 18th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

The answer is yes; we are actively working on the issue, and we are not the only country impacted by it. Just yesterday, officials from Germany were talking about how they needed to look into it. It is due to the rising cost of components, which we will look at as part of our trade and co-operation agreement, but it is something that both sides are interested in resolving, so I assure the hon. Lady that we are actively working on it.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

Businesses and organisations in my constituency, and no doubt beyond, have ended up marooned on exceptionally high energy tariffs because they were forced to sign contracts at the height of the crisis. What conversations have Ministers had with Ofgem and with the energy companies to see what can be done to support those businesses, as those tariffs will be a drag on their future growth and development, and in some cases threaten their very survival?

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Kemi Badenoch

Thursday 11th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

The answer is yes. I wrote back to and engaged with all the Members who wrote to me about this issue as soon as I became Business Secretary. The response had been so quiet that it felt to me very much like a technical change, which is what it is. I am very happy to explain as much as possible on the Floor of the House. But I emphasise that this was my decision; it was not that of the Prime Minister or civil servants. It was me looking at the detail and deciding that this was the best approach because it is how we will get to that number but create more time for reform. It is about accelerating the process. I do not think anyone in this House can claim that I am not a Brexiteer. I stood here less than a month ago talking about how we had successfully negotiated the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership, the biggest trade deal that we have ever done in this country since we left the EU. That is a benefit of Brexit. I am very proud to continue to do that. This is the best way for us to deliver more benefit over and over again rather than spend our time on parliamentary procedure, which does not mean much to people on the doorstep.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

As chair of the all-party parliamentary group on working at height, I have been trying to get clarity for some time on the very specific Work at Height Regulations 2005. Can the Secretary of State tell me whether those regulations will be included or protected? The assurances that I have had so far have not provided the clarity that the sector needs.

[Kemi Badenoch]

The hon. Lady will know that I was not privy to those conversations. If she writes to me with the specifics, I should be able to provide an answer. What we have talked about changing is the bureaucracy around reporting, and that does not sound like what she raised.

Finance (No.2) Bill (Second sitting)

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Kemi Badenoch

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Public Bill Committees

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Kemi Badenoch)]

As the Committee will know, the Government are deeply committed to greening our economy and being the greenest Government ever. As part of our resources and waste strategy, published in 2018, we committed to reducing waste and incentivising more sustainable production. The introduction of this world-leading tax on plastic packaging is a key part of that strategy.

Plastic waste is a pressing global issue. It often does not decompose and can last centuries in landfill, or ends up littering the streets or polluting the natural environment. More than 2.2 million tonnes of plastic packaging are manufactured in the UK each year. The vast majority is made from new plastic, rather than recycled material, because recycled plastic is often more expensive to use than new plastic. To tackle this, our 2019 manifesto reaffirmed the commitment to introduce a world-leading new tax on plastic packaging from April 2022. The tax will apply to the manufacture and import of plastic packaging that does not contain at least 30% recycled plastic.

The tax charge will arise on unfilled packaging manufactured in the UK and to unfilled or filled packaging imported into the UK. Including imported filled packaging in the tax will prevent any potential disadvantage to the UK packaging industry and means that packaging around imported products—for example, the bottle a drink comes in—will be within the scope of the tax.

The tax will provide a clear economic incentive for businesses to use recycled material when manufacturing plastic packaging. That will help to tackle the problem of plastic pollution, creating greater demand for this material and in turn stimulating increased levels of recycling and collection of plastic waste, diverting it away from landfill or incineration.

Clauses 42 to 46 set out the introduction of the plastic packaging tax. They provide the high-level principles around the charging of the tax, including key definitions needed to give businesses clarity about whether they are liable to the tax on packaging they manufacture or import. The Bill also provides powers to make secondary legislation that will provide further clarity to these definitions. That will be supported by guidance, which will also be published later this year.

Clause 42 introduces the PPT and sets out that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs will be responsible for its collection and management, in line with its wider responsibilities for the collection and management of taxes. Clauses 43 and 44 set out that the tax will be paid on packaging manufactured in the course of business in the UK, as well as on imported plastic packaging. For packaging manufactured in the UK, the manufacturer will be liable for the tax. For imported packaging, the person on whose behalf the packaging is imported will be liable, as they are better placed to know about the packaging than those providing customs and transport services to import goods.

Clause 45 sets out that the tax will be charged at a rate of £200 per metric tonne of chargeable plastic packaging. We will come later to the clause that sets out the 30% threshold for recycled plastic, below which the tax will be charged. A £200 rate provides a clear economic incentive for businesses to use recycled material when manufacturing plastic packaging. The clause specifies that this rate applies to a single plastic packaging component, such as bottles, lids and wrappers. This will mean that manufacturers and importers have incentives to include 30% recycled plastic in each type of plastic packaging component that they manufacture or import. If this is part of a tonne, the amount is reduced proportionately. For example, 0.5 tonnes would equate to £100 in tax. Clause 46 provides the high-level principles for the payment of the tax in relation to the relevant accounting periods. Further detail on this will be set out in regulations.

I now turn to new clause 8, tabled by the hon. Members for Glasgow Central, for Glenrothes, for Gordon and for Midlothian, and new clauses 11 and 13, tabled by the hon. Members for Ealing North, for Erith and Thamesmead and for Manchester, Withington. These new clauses suggest that the Government conduct future reviews into the tax and the impact that it has, including after six months of passing the Bill for the tax rate and for all aspects of the tax in the year after introduction, or annually after an initial report.

The Government have already set out a large amount of detail about the expected impact of the tax, and a National Audit Office report on environmental taxes recently concluded that Her Majesty’s Treasury and HMRC

“had undertaken extensive work to understand the possible impact of the tax.”

The tax information and impact note published in March this year set out that, as a result of the tax, the use of recycled plastic in packaging could increase by around an estimated 40%—equal to carbon savings of nearly 200,000 tonnes—with expected revenue from the tax ranging from £210 million to £235 million a year between 2022-23 and 2025-26. Further detail on modelling to assess the impacts of the plastic packaging tax was set out by the Office for Budget Responsibility in its economic and fiscal outlook published in March 2020. Most significantly, that included the increase in recycled plastic in packaging and more marginal impacts, such as switching to alternative plastics or materials.

The aim of the tax is to incentivise the use of more recycled plastic, rather than new plastic, in plastic packaging. The tax will complement the reformed packaging producer responsibility regulations, which will encourage businesses to design and use plastic packaging that is easier to recycle, and discourage the creation of plastic packaging that is difficult to recycle. They will also make businesses responsible for the cost of managing the packaging they place on the market when it becomes waste. Given that, the Government have focused analysis of the plastic packaging tax on the objectives rather than wider issues such as the reuse and recyclability of packaging, as suggested in new clause 13.

As with all tax policy, the Government will continue to keep the plastic packaging tax under review, including the level of the tax, to ensure that it remains effective in increasing the use of recycled plastic. Given the substantive information already published and the fact that limited new information is likely to be available before the tax is introduced, six months after the passage of the Bill would not be the right time to conduct and publish a review into the impact of the tax rate and chargeable packaging components.

As regards evaluating the tax annually after its introduction, being able to accurately isolate the impact of particular policy measures alongside other external factors is inherently difficult, and the Government will carefully consider those issues. As set out in the tax information and impact note published in March this year, consideration will be given to evaluating aspects, including the rate, threshold and exemptions, of the policy after at least one year of monitoring data has been analysed and collected.

The Government agree that it is important to understand the efficacy and impacts of the plastic packaging tax, but given that these issues have been previously considered and will be kept under review, we do not think new clauses 8, 11 and 13 are necessary. The clauses in the Bill form the first part of the legislation needed to introduce the plastic packaging tax in April 2022. I therefore move that they stand part of the Bill.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

I rise to speak to new clause 8, tabled in my name and that of my colleagues. I remain interested in the idea of a plastic packaging tax, and I will support it because too many of our natural resources are being wasted. We know from looking around that things are often thrown away that could be used again. We certainly broadly support what the Government are trying to do here, and it is a shame that it does not align with the deposit return scheme, which has been delayed in England but will move ahead in Scotland, because doing these things at the same time would have made a lot of sense and would make for a cohesive and coherent policy.

We tabled our new clause because there are aspects of the Bill where we need a wee bit more detail and aspects where the Government could be more ambitious. It is an ambitious new policy, but I think that more could be done. For example, we understand from the consultation that Her Majesty’s Treasury has closed a loophole that would have allowed people to switch to bringing in packaging from abroad, but there are still questions around the operation of the paperwork and the audit trail that will be required to ensure the success of the scheme. We also understand that the provisions are to be made by regulation under the negative procedure, and we urge the Government to be as clear as possible about how that will work, because it is important. Those in the industry will want to know how that will operate, and it falls to us as elected representatives to scrutinise that as much as we can to ensure that it is done properly.

Having spoken to stakeholders, there are concerns that I want to set out. The first is about the 30% threshold. Last night, I went to pick up a bottle of brand-name lemonade from the supermarket as part of my dinner. It proudly proclaimed on the side that it was 50% recycled, which is already above the 30% threshold—they were already doing more.

Some plastics lend themselves more to a higher level than others. PET, which is used in fizzy juice bottles such as my lemonade bottle, can be commonly and easily recycled up to 100%, so 30% is quite low for that type of plastic. The new clause seeks to look at different types of plastic and the scope for recycling them.

Polypropylene, which is used for food-grade plastics, is much more difficult to recycle. Just before lunchtime, a briefing from the Food and Drink Federation reached me. It queries what will happen about food-grade plastics and whether food businesses can avoid paying the plastic packaging tax when they cannot legally increase the recycled content of packaging in certain polymer types and formats for food contact. There are different regulations for food-grade plastics than for other plastics.

HDPE, which is used in milk bottles, could reach 30%. The dairy industry road map suggested that it was aiming for 50% of recycled material in opaque milk bottles. Again, we are not quite sure what the 30% makes possible. It would be good to be more ambitious in the areas where we can do more recycling, so that we can storm ahead. In areas where it is more difficult, it makes sense to look at things slightly differently.

The Association of Accounting Technicians commented on the international context. Brands such as Kraft Heinz have committed to make 100% of packaging worldwide recyclable or compostable by 2025. The American Chemistry Council’s plastics division is working towards 100% of plastic packaging being recyclable and recoverable by 2030. The European Commission and the Australian Government are also pushing ahead and say that 30% appears to lack ambition on a global scale.

I gently urge the Government to see if there is a differentiated approach that might be a bit more ambitious and a bit more detailed, to allow those areas where more speed is possible to push ahead. The Green Alliance believe that a differentiated obligation would be useful, because there is potential there. While we want all areas to be recycling 100% if possible, there are real technical difficulties in doing so at the moment.

The Green Alliance is also concerned about perverse outcomes from the Bill around packaging composed of multiple materials, such as card coated in a plastic or other such elements. Such items are very difficult and specialist to recycle. We would not want people to switch to those items rather than plastics; that would make the recycling situation worse because those items cannot be recycled and recovered as easily. Our new clause also addresses that point, as well as ensuring the reporting of recycling rates and the volume use of the relevant plastics.

It is important to note that the price of plastics, both recycled and virgin material, is very volatile, fluctuating with the oil price, which as we all know has moved considerably in recent years. We are worried that the scheme will not deliver the desired outcome in the event of low oil prices. Some experts suggest that plastics recycling is unviable if the oil price is under £65 a barrel. An HMT analysis of the tax level required to balance that volatility and reduce exposure would seem logical.

The £200 per tonne levy could be set higher, and there should be further analysis. At £200 per tonne, it might be more viable for businesses to pay the tax, rather than recycle the materials, which is not the Government’s very laudable aim. It would be useful to understand that fully, as low oil prices will have an impact on the viability of recyclers. Some have attributed the failures of recycling plants in London and Lincolnshire in 2015 and 2017 to that oil-price volatility. We want to ensure that those recyclers are viable businesses. We want to give a future to this sector and to ensure that these businesses can thrive, because they do good work.

A contrast has been drawn with the landfill tax, which has a clear trajectory and clear predictability, allowing people to plan a way for the market to shift to alternatives. We need to make it as easy as possible for businesses to do that. An escalator, as suggested by the Green Alliance, would be useful, so that people can plan and, if behaviour changes or other prices play into that, there is a clear sense of where we are going.

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[Kemi Badenoch]

I will go through the points that hon. Members have raised, and I think I will be able to answer quite a few of their questions. On the point about the 30% recycled plastic threshold being too low to be effective, I would say to the hon. Member for Glasgow Central that a £200 per tonne rate for plastic packaging that does not contain at least 30% recycled plastic will provide a clearer economic incentive for businesses to use more recycled plastic in the production of packaging—at the moment, it is just about 10%—and, in many cases, will make it more cost effective. We as a Government believe that setting the threshold for the level of recycled packaging at 30% is ambitious, reflects the pressing need to act on this issue and is achievable in the foreseeable future for many types of packaging. There is no point setting a threshold that we do not think people will be able to meet.

On the question of consultation with industry representatives and stakeholders, we consulted extensively. All regulations under this part of this Bill will also go through a public technical consultation before they are finalised. We will seek comments from interested stakeholders. HMRC has also set up the plastic packaging tax industry working group and conducted meetings with it to support the implementation of the tax and aid the process of drafting regulations and guidance. I take the point that the hon. Lady has made about the clarity of that guidance, and I am sure—because HMRC is working with the industry working group—that it will get there. The group consists of an independent expert and trade organisations that cover the wide range of sectors affected by the tax, ensuring that a broad range of views are taken into account.

To date, the Government have conducted extensive engagement with the industry on the design of the tax, and held two policy design consultations and one technical consultation about the clauses of this Bill. HMRC also continues to have regular contact with the devolved Administrations, non-Government departmental bodies, and other interested stakeholders about all activity regarding the tax.

[Alison Thewliss]

I am glad to hear that that engagement is ongoing. Can I ask whether the Food and Drink Federation is included within that? I am a wee bit concerned that its concerns came through this afternoon, just before we were due to discuss this issue. Perhaps the timetable that we have gone through with the Bill has surprised people who thought that they had a couple of days longer to get their submissions in, and I would like to know whether the Food and Drink Federation was part of that.

[Kemi Badenoch]

The Food and Drink Federation is part of the industry working group. The other members are WRAP, the British Plastics Federation, the Chartered Institution of Wastes Management, the Foodservice Packaging Association, the Grantham Institute, the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport, Inkpen, the British Retail Consortium, the Packaging Scheme Forum, the Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry and the Forum of Private Business.

I was asked whether there is evidence that the tax will cause any change because of the level that it has been set at, but I think I answered that in my previous answer.

The hon. Members for Erith and Thamesmead and for Glasgow Central asked about the oil price. The Government recognise that the price of oil may impact on the demand for virgin and recycled plastic, which is why we are putting in place a number of reforms to transform the economics of recycling. A stabilisation fund to protect against changes to the oil price would be highly complex to administer and would carry a risk to public finances. We are not going with that, but tax measures are being introduced by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, including extended producer responsibility reforms and a deposit scheme. The hon. Member for Glasgow Central mentioned that there is one in Scotland, and we will be introducing one in England as soon as is practical. We are seeking feedback on proposed timelines from DEFRA’s consultations. All of that will help increase the supply and quality of recycled plastic, making it a cheaper and more viable alternative to virgin plastic. That will also make demand for recyclable plastic less susceptible to changes in the oil price.

There was a similar question about complex multi-material packaging. We are not making an exemption for that, because during the consultation on the treatment of multi-material packaging, the Government decided that all packaging in which plastic is the largest material by weight should be within the scope of the tax. This will make it easier for businesses to administer the tax, and it will also rightly focus on packaging components that use the most plastic as a proportion of all material. We are confident that a reformed producer responsibility system for packaging will complement the tax and incentivise businesses to design and use packaging that can be recycled more easily.

[Alison Thewliss]

One of the things that has been raised with me is that, if someone gets a traditional coffee cup from any high street coffee chain, the coffee cup would not be within the scope of the Bill, but the lid would be. Does that not seem a wee bit perverse?

[Kemi Badenoch]

I am not sure that is the case. HMRC and the members of the working group could give specific details on exactly how that would work, but we are having the public technical consultation. That is the sort of question that can be raised there; hopefully, it will receive an answer.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 42 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 43 to 46 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 47

Chargeable plastic packaging components

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison Thewliss]

In practical terms, how many additional staff will be brought into HMRC to deal with compliance? Does the Exchequer Secretary have an estimate of the cost to the Government? Is there any estimate of the cost to firms of complying with the additional paperwork? Firms are already having to do quite a lot of additional paperwork following Brexit.

[Kemi Badenoch]

I believe that the first question from the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead was about avoidance risk because of where we have set the de minimis threshold. As with other taxes, the Government intend to implement measures to prevent abuse—including anti-avoidance measures covered in later clauses, which I will come to—and, where appropriate, to enable HMRC to take action to tackle the artificial splitting of a business. Connected persons will also be treated as a single organisation in assessing whether they exceed the de minimis threshold.

On business readiness, awareness and the amount of support and guidance provided, which the hon. Member for Glasgow Central referred to, we have consulted extensively to ensure that businesses are ready. We have been discussing the measure for several years now, as the hon. Lady will remember from previous Finance Bills; it will be introduced in 2022. We are raising awareness through consulting on the tax, including through the technical consultation on draft legislation and through work with industry, which will help us to ensure that the regulations are fit and ready.

On administrative cost, we think that 20,000 manufacturers and importers of plastic packaging will be affected by PPT. For plastic packaging manufactured in the UK, the manufacturer must register for and pay the tax; for plastic packaging imported into the UK, the person on whose behalf the packaging is imported must register and pay. They will usually be the consignee on import documentation, but where a consignee or co-signee can demonstrate that they are acting on behalf of another business that owns the goods, as in the case of freight forwarders, the owner must register an account for the tax.

We have looked at all the measures to ensure that businesses are ready and that costs are proportionate, and we feel that we have struck the right balance.

Finance (No.2) Bill (First sitting)

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Kemi Badenoch

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Alison Thewliss]

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 15 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 16

Meaning of “general decommissioning expenditure”

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Kemi Badenoch)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Gary. The clause makes changes to ensure that decommissioning expenditure incurred by oil and gas companies in anticipation of the approval of an abandonment programme, a condition imposed by the Secretary of State or an agreement made with the Secretary of State qualifies for decommissioning tax relief.

Companies operating oilfields in the UK and the UK continental shelf have always been required to decommission the wells and infrastructure at the end of a field’s life. The tax relief for decommissioning expenditure is an important part of the UK’s overall oil and gas fiscal regime, which is balanced to maximise economic recovery of the nation’s national resources while ensuring that the nation receives a fair return for those natural resources. The changes made by the clause will clarify that appropriate expenditure on decommissioning incurred in anticipation of the approval of an abandonment programme, a condition imposed by the Secretary of State or an agreement made with the Secretary of State qualifies for decommissioning tax relief.

The clause does not have any Exchequer costs and does not alter the original policy intent of decommissioning tax relief. It will provide certainty for the UK oil and gas sector, which supports approximately 260,000 jobs, around 40% of which are in Scotland, and which has paid approximately £350 billion in production taxes to date. The clause will provide certainty that all appropriate decommissioning expenditure qualifies for decommissioning tax relief.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison Thewliss]

I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 22 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 23

Cash equivalent benefit of a zero-emissions van

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Kemi Badenoch]

Clause 23 makes changes to reduce the van benefit charge—the VBC—to zero for employees who are provided with a company van that produces zero carbon emissions. The van benefit charge applies where an employee is provided with a company van by their employer that they use privately, other than for ordinary home-to-work commuting.

At Budget 2014, the Government announced that the van benefit charge for zero-emission vans would be a percentage of the flat-rate van benefit charge for conventionally fuelled vehicles until April 2020. Those changes were legislated for in the Finance Act 2015. At Budget 2015, the Government announced that the planned increases to the percentages for 2016-17 and 2017-18 would be deferred to 2018-19, and the percentages would increase by 20% for each subsequent tax year, rising to 100% in 2021-22. Those changes were legislated for in the Finance Act 2016.

The changes made by clause 23 will reduce the van benefit charge to zero from 6 April 2021 for all company vans that emit zero carbon emissions, giving those vehicles preferential tax treatment over conventionally fuelled vehicles. The Government announced the measure at Budget 2020 to incentivise the uptake of zero-emission vans and to help the UK to meet its legally binding climate change targets.

Transport is now the largest sector for domestic UK greenhouse gas emissions, and a significant proportion of that is accounted for by road transport. Moreover, vans tend to do more mileage and are more polluting than cars. By reducing the level of the tax charge that would otherwise be applicable, the change outlined in the clause will incentivise the uptake of zero-emission vans and support the Government’s environmental commitments.

Finance (No.2) Bill (First sitting)

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Kemi Badenoch

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Alison Thewliss]

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Kemi Badenoch)]

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison Thewliss]

[Kemi Badenoch]

Finance Bill (Tenth sitting)

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Kemi Badenoch

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 10th sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 18th June 2020 Public Bill Committees

[Alison Thewliss]

I rise to speak to new clause 17 and associate myself with the remarks of the hon. Member for Ilford North, with which I broadly agree and support. We certainly support new clause 5, which chimes with our new clause. We live in a society where it is clear and evident that able-bodied older white men do better than almost everybody else, so what we want to see from the Finance Bill is who benefits from the measures within it and how we know that. We do not know that from how the Government have acted, as they have conducted a very light-touch equality impact assessment on the Budget.

The Women’s Budget Group has produced an excellent briefing, and it calls the Treasury out on failing to publish comprehensive equality impact assessments:

“The only impact assessment relating to protected characteristics in the Budget documents are the Tax Information and Impact Notes (TIINS) produced by HMRC. Only a few measures were recognised to have any equalities impact at all and even here the analysis is cursory, based on limited evidence and with a poor understanding of equality impact…In the absence of a meaningful cumulative equality impact assessment of the budget as a whole it is impossible to judge whether the Treasury has met its obligation under the Public Sector Equality Duty to have ‘due regard’ to equality.”

That is pretty damning on the equality impact assessments that Ministers say they have carried out.

Under the measures assessed as having an equalities impact in the equality impact assessment, the Women’s Budget Group notes that for the lifetime limit for capital gains tax entrepreneurs’ relief, the assessment recognises that

“claimants tend to be older, men, of above-average means, and include individuals who are selling their business or their company’s shares on retirement”,

and does not anticipate an impact on any other groups sharing a protected characteristic, but there is no working to show how the Government arrived at that. There is no further analysis as to why they think that no other groups will be affected. It is one thing to assert that, but the Government have to show their working, and they have not done that.

The Women’s Budget Group also notes that the equality impact assessment states that the measure on pensions tax income thresholds for calculating the tapered annual allowance will impact more on men than on women. The assessment states that it is

“not anticipated that there will be impacts on any other groups sharing protected characteristics”.

However, the Women’s Budget Group points out that the family resources survey could have been used to assess the impact by age, ethnicity, disability and various other characteristics, but that was not done. Again, it is not a full equality impact assessment; it is very light touch.

The WBG also mentions the changes to the disguised remuneration loan charge as referenced in the equality impact assessment. The analysis states that,

“broadly the measure is expected to affect more males than females”,

but that it is

“not anticipated that this measure will have a significant, or disproportionate, impact on groups with protected characteristics”.

However, there is no explanation for that. It might well be true, but we cannot tell because the Government have not shown their working.

The Women’s Budget Group analysis also discusses measures where no equalities impact is identified at all, when it really should have been. I do not want to go into all of these things, because they are multiple, and we would be here all afternoon, but I will touch on the changes to the van benefit charge and fuel benefit charges for cars and vans and the taxable benefits regime for measuring CO₂ emissions, which primarily impact on

“individuals who use a company van or car which is available for their private use and/or who are provided with fuel for their private use by their employer”.

Those people are far more likely to be men. We might guess that, or we might anticipate that. The Government’s statistics on driving licences show that in 2018, 81% of men had a driving licence, compared with 70% of women. There are also issues of race, because 62% of people designated as Asian, 52% who are black, and 76% of people who are white have driving licences. That is a clear discrepancy and will have a clear differential effect as to who will or will not benefit from the measures. The Government already have those statistics but have not chosen to do an equalities impact assessment on them. There will be a differential impact because not everyone has a driving licence and those who do have one are predominantly white men.

The Government might want to look at the sectors that would benefit. There may be differences in the types of people who would do jobs with a company car or van. The Government might want to look at those sectors and say, “Actually, there is a disproportionate number of people of a particular background in there.” That has not been done. If we do not count those things we do not know what the impact is. We do not know who benefits and why, or what we can do to make sure that everyone benefits from the measures that the Government propose.

That, I suppose, is just a small example of why the impact assessment is needed. There are clear disparities across society and clear inequalities. If we do not count in the Finance Bill who benefits, why, and what can be done to redress the imbalances that we see in society in front of us, by taxation or other measures, we will never be able to address those inequalities and go to a more equal society.

[Kemi Badenoch]

New clause 5 would require the Chancellor to conduct and lay before the House an equality impact assessment of the Act within six months of Royal Assent. New clause 17 would require him to lay a similar report within 12 months. Those additional reporting requirements are not necessary. The Treasury considers carefully the equality impacts of the individual measures mentioned and announced at fiscal events on those sharing protected characteristics, including gender, race and disability, in line with its legal obligations and its strong commitment to equality issues.

The outcome of all fiscal events is published, and is subject to much parliamentary and public scrutiny. The Treasury also takes care to pay due regard to the equality impact of its policy decisions relating to the covid-19 outbreak, in line with all legal requirements and the Government’s commitment to promoting equality. There are internal procedural requirements and support in place, to ensure that such considerations inform decisions taken by Ministers.

In the interest of transparency the Treasury and HMRC publish tax information and impact notes for individual tax measures that include in summary form assessments of their expected equalities impacts. The system of accompanying tax legislation with TIINs was introduced under this Government, and the notes include headline summaries of equality impacts, as well as other important information that reflects internal assessments carried out as an integral part of decision making.

In addition, the Treasury already publishes analyses of the impacts of the Government’s measures on households at different levels of income, in the “Impact on households” report, which is published separately alongside each Budget, along with trends in living standards and the labour market, by region and income level. That is the most comprehensive analysis of its type available, and it shows that as a result of decisions taking in Spending Round 2019 and Budget 2020 the poorest households have gained the most as a percentage of net income.

That brings me to the comments of the hon. Member for Ilford North and the hon. Member for Glasgow Central. They keep talking about the Government not doing enough on inequalities. Actually the Government have done quite a lot, but the hon. Members refuse to acknowledge it. When we have commissions and recommendations the hon. Member for Ilford North complains about a new commission. We have carried out recommendations, and the hon. Members pretend that nothing has happened. The hon. Gentleman mentioned the shadow Justice Secretary. Did he ask him about the progress that we have made on the Lammy report? We have carried out many of those recommendations, but hon. Members stand up in Parliament and pretend that nothing has happened. They continue to use incendiary and inflammatory rhetoric. Is it any wonder that there are people out there who feel that the Government are doing nothing, when so many MPs in this House stand up and say so? It is a shame, and as Equalities Minister I think it is a disgrace.

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[Alison Thewliss]

rose—

[Kemi Badenoch]

No, I am not giving way; Opposition Members have had their time. I ask the hon. Lady, instead of trying to give me lectures, to take some time to learn a little more about what is going on. Even the phrase she talks about—“people with protected characteristics”—is wrong; we all have protected characteristics. The Equality Act is for everybody and not for specific groups of people.

On that note, neither of the new clauses would be useful in finding out more about the impact on equality, because the Government regularly publish in summary form the equality impact assessments for the legislation that we introduce. The reports required by the new clauses would not add any genuine value, so I ask the Committee to reject them.

Finance Bill (Seventh sitting)

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Kemi Badenoch

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 7th sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 16th June 2020 Public Bill Committees

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Kemi Badenoch)]

Clause 79 makes changes to alcohol duty legislation to introduce prohibitive sanctions for anyone who dilutes wine or made-wine once that product has passed a duty point. It will ensure fairness by providing equity of treatment across the drinks industry and will tackle future revenue risks for the Exchequer.

Post duty point dilution is a practice that enables wine and made-wine producers to reduce the excise duty that they pay by diluting the product after duty has been paid. Because the dilution increases the volume of wine and made-wine for sale, with no additional duty being paid, less duty is paid than would otherwise be due. UK legislation does not expressly prevent post duty point dilution for wine and made-wine, although it is prohibited for all other alcohol products. The practice gives certain wine or made-wine producers a tax advantage over those who produce other categories of alcohol, of which dilution is not permitted, and over others in their own sector who cannot make use of the practice.

Clause 79 will introduce new prohibitive sanctions for anyone who dilutes wine or made-wine once that product has passed a duty point on or after 1 April 2020. Introducing new sanctions to prevent the practice will maintain the principle that excise duty is calculated only on a finished product when it is released from production premises or on import. It will ensure fairness by providing equity of treatment across the drinks industry and will tackle future revenue risks for the Exchequer.

A review of the practice was launched at autumn Budget 2017, during which HMRC engaged extensively with industry and gathered a large amount of evidence to inform a decision. At Budget 2018, the Government announced the findings of the review and their intention to stop the practice being used for wine and made-wine, as is already the case for other types of alcohol. However, the Government also announced that that would not take effect until April 2020. That has given those businesses affected almost three years to prepare for the change, allowing them time to reformulate or diversify into the production of new lines.

Amendment 10 would require the Chancellor to review the public health effects of the post duty point dilution sanctions. When making changes to the alcohol duty system, the Government take into account a wide range of factors, including economic inequalities and health impacts. The new sanctions follow an extensive review by HMRC in 2017. Draft legislation was published in July 2019, alongside which a tax information and impact note was published on the gov.uk website, detailing the various factors that the Government have considered. The amendment is therefore unnecessary, as the Government have already published our assessment of the effect on public health. For the convenience of the Committee, I will reiterate that assessment. The Government expect that

“wine or made-wine may become slightly more expensive…there may be a positive health impact with less wine being consumed. However, this benefit may be offset if any increase in price leads to consumers switching to higher strength products.”

[Alison Thewliss]

I am sure the Minister has seen the graph that sets pence per unit against alcohol by volume. To say that it looks as though it was drawn by a child with a crayon is being generous to children with crayons. Will she consider a wider review of the duty per unit of alcohol by product type, because at the moment it makes absolutely no sense?

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison Thewliss]

I beg to move amendment 12, in clause 85, page 72, line 33, after “supplies” insert “, including human breastmilk”.

This amendment would ensure that vehicles carrying human breastmilk would benefit from the exemption from Vehicle Excise Duty.

I am delighted to continue my personal journey to ensure that breastfeeding is mentioned in every possible place in this House. I am chair of the all-party group on infant feeding and inequalities, so I declare that interest up front.

The measure I seek to add to the Bill would cost the Government very little, if anything at all, but would send a very strong signal that the Government support and recognise breast milk banks across the UK. Sub-paragraph 2(b) of proposed new paragraph 6A to schedule 2 to the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 refers to

“medicines and other medical supplies”.

I am not quite sure whether that would capture breast milk. I seek clarification from the Minister on that, because I do not think it is clear enough, which was why I tabled the amendment.

Human breast milk banks exist across the UK. Some do not exist quite to the size and scale that we would like, so the amendment would help to encourage them that there is Government support for what they are doing. I mention the Human Milk Foundation, the Northwest Human Milk Bank, Hearts Milk Bank and Milk Bank Scotland, which is based in Glasgow and the one that I know best. Having spoken to Debbie Barnett, its donor milk bank co-ordinator, I know that Milk Bank Scotland does not have its own vehicles at the moment, but relies on the Glasgow Children’s Hospital Charity volunteers, who transport the milk, after picking it up from donors, and take it out to those who need it. Having its own vehicles would be something for a future point, but the amendment would certainly support the milk bank, and others across the UK, in doing that.

Like blood, breast milk has to be properly processed, and there are procedures in place for doing so. Like blood, it needs special carriage to take it from donors to the milk banks for processing, and back out again. The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guideline 93 on donor breast milk banks says that, when transporting milk to the milk bank, critical conditions for transport include

“temperature and time limit, to ensure that donor milk remains frozen during transport.”

The guideline also states that donor milk should be transported

“in secure, tamper-evident containers and packaging”

and that a range of procedures are in place for achieving that.

In chapter 33 of its guide to the quality and safety of tissues and cells for human application, on the distribution of and transport conditions for human milk, the European directorate for the quality of medicines states:

“During transport, milk should remain frozen and dry ice may be used for this purpose.

The use of validated, easily cleaned, insulated transport containers is recommended.

The transport procedure should be validated, and the temperature of the transport container monitored during transportation.”

All those measures are relatively similar to how blood and other blood products are transported around the UK, and would fit quite well with the medical courier vehicles exemption set out in the Bill. Many of these organisations are charities, and they would very much appreciate support in moving milk around the country.

I appeal to the Government to accept the amendment, which is uncontentious—and indisputable, really. Doing so would send a good signal that the UK Government support milk banks, the people across the UK who wish to use them, and the science behind them. They are particularly important in supporting premature babies in their earliest days. The World Health Organisation recently indicated the significance of breast milk during coronavirus, and that women should be supported whenever possible to feed their babies with human breast milk. Covid-19 is not present in breast milk, and the milk is therefore of huge benefit in supporting babies in their earliest days. I encourage Ministers to take on the amendment, if they can take on anything at all, and to show support for milk banks across the UK.

[Kemi Badenoch]

Amendment 12 would extend the exemption so that it applied to people carrying human breast milk. I do not think that any of us would disagree with that, but clause 85 already covers the transportation of human breast milk. The purpose-built vehicles used by medical courier charities, which are exempted from VED by the measure, transport not just blood, but a wide range of medical products, including X-rays, MRI scans, plasma and human breast milk.

The inclusion of the amendment in the Bill would make things more difficult. Its wording is quite vague, it does not clearly define the vehicles that it is trying to capture, and it would create the risk of abuse. We believe that the matter is already covered by clause 85. Although the Government fully support the sentiment of the amendment, as breast milk is already captured under the clause, I ask the Committee to reject the it.

[Alison Thewliss]

I would like to press the amendment to a vote, to add to the clarity of the clause.

Amendment 12 negatived.

Clause 85 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(David Rutley.)

Finance Bill (First sitting)

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Kemi Badenoch

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 4th June 2020 Public Bill Committees

[Alison Thewliss]

There is indeed not terribly much to oppose here, but this is about the ambition of the Government to make a change, to make something different out of this Bill and to do something different. I draw the attention of Government Members to what Norway has done to increase the use of electric vehicles, so that 42% of its cars are now electric vehicles. The Norwegians did that with incentives such as no annual road tax for electric vehicles, company car tax reduction to 40% on electric vehicles, changes to purchase and import taxes, and an exemption from 25% VAT on purchase. They had an ambitious programme, and they needed the infrastructure, but they took those actions and they saw a dramatic change in the number of electric vehicles as a result.

I encourage the Government to look at what can be done. If cars are to be around for some time to come, how can we make them better? In many parts of Scotland, for example, people need a car to get around In large parts of rural Scotland it would be impossible to do anything other than have a car, but if we can make those cars electric vehicles, providing the plug-in infrastructure for them and the tax incentives to reduce their cost, we could make that change achievable. I ask the Government to be more ambitious.

[Kemi Badenoch]

I thank both hon. Members for the points that they have made and the good questions they asked. I reiterate that tackling climate change and improving the environment are top priorities of the Government. The UK is a world leader on climate change. The reason why we are doing this is to address several things at once.

Let us remind ourselves what the WLTP is. It is designed to ensure that we are reflecting real world driving conditions more accurately by including a longer test time. The aim is to reduce the 40% gap between lab tests and real world driving. We have put many other levers in place to address the broader issue of climate change.

I accept the point about complexity—I recognise the need to ensure that this does not have an overall impact on the consumer. One of the reasons why we are phasing it in this way is to better protect the automotive sector. I thank both Members for the points they made.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 7 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 8 and 9 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 10

Apprenticeship bursaries paid to persons leaving local authority care

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Public Health England Review: Covid-19 Disparities

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Kemi Badenoch

Thursday 4th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

Yes. The largest disparity found was by age. People diagnosed who were 80 or older were 70 times more likely to die than those under 40. My hon. Friend is right, and that is something I will be doing.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

As I said to the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care earlier this week, it is one thing to say that black lives matter and quite another to force black people and people from BAME backgrounds out to work who have no choice other than to go to work because they have no recourse to public funds. No recourse to public funds is a racist policy. Will she abolish it now?