Pensions and Benefits Uprating

Debate between Alan Reid and Gregg McClymont

Tuesday 25th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (Lab)]

I do not intend to detain the House for too long. I begin by thanking my hon. Friend the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Katy Clark) for a powerful speech. The final point that she made is an important one, and it is worth the House’s reflecting on it, because often when we discuss these kinds of issues there is a tendency to caricature the record of the last Labour Government, but anyone who looks closely at their changes to and improvements in social security will see a record of quite substantial progress. Of course, social progress often comes slowly; it is measured in inches as well as feet, and in centimetres as well as metres. However, there was significant social progress and that is part of the context within which this debate should be understood.

[Mr Reid]

The hon. Gentleman referred to enormous social progress, but why did the last Labour Government not increase pensions in line with earnings, as will now happen over the long term thanks to the triple lock?

--- Later in debate ---

[Gregg McClymont]

I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman made that point, because to some degree it illuminates the difference between him and Labour; because what he discounts entirely by asking that question is the impact of pension credit. I do not know how aware he is of pension credit, but it took 1.3 million pensioners out of poverty. Is that not something that he welcomes? It reduced pensioner poverty in Scotland by two thirds, taking 200,000 pensioners out of poverty.

[Mr Reid]

rose—

[Gregg McClymont]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman again, but I hope he will recognise that achievement.

[Mr Reid]

The defect of the pension credit arrangements, when compared with the new pension arrangements that my hon. Friend the Minister has introduced, was that people had to apply for pension credit, and a lot of people were unaware that they had to do that, whereas under the new pension arrangements everyone will get the single-tier pension.

[Gregg McClymont]

I am afraid to say to the hon. Gentleman that, although I understand where he is coming from, it is not the case that everyone will receive the single-tier pension; people must have made contributions for 35 years. He should speak to his colleague, the Minister, who everyone recognises is an expert on the state pension. There will be poor pensioners who will not receive the new pension, and they will depend on pension credit.

I asked the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Mr Reid) to reflect on the reality of the difference that pension credit made, particularly in a period after 1997 when there was genuine absolute pensioner poverty.

Pensions and Social Security

Debate between Alan Reid and Gregg McClymont

Wednesday 13th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (Lab)]

There are two major issues at hand in these orders. The second order is uncontroversial, as the Minister explained at the outset, but inside the controversial order on social security benefits uprating are two issues in particular. First, there is the nature and extent of the uprating of pensioner incomes; and, secondly, there is the Government’s decision to cut in-work and out-of-work benefits. It would be better if those two things had been separated to allow for a proper debate on both, but the Government have taken the decision to place one inside the other.

The debate began with the Minister taking the Floor, and he was followed by my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), who forensically dissected the impact of the Government’s policy on hard-working families, strivers and the most vulnerable. Further contributions came from only one side of the House—the Opposition side. We heard from my hon. Friends the Members for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) and for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore), the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford), and my hon. Friend the Member for Dumfries and Galloway (Mr Brown). All their contributions were characterised by an emphasis on and an interest in how the Government’s decision to cut in-work and out-of-work benefits will affect families—not only families in what we might call the squeezed middle but families who are looking for work. I will return to the issue of what we might call the strivers tax, but let me first deal with the nature and extent of the uprating of pensioner incomes.

We have heard much from the Minister about the triple lock. I do not know if he is aware, but the original triple lock was a handgun produced by Smith & Wesson in 1908. Like the Minister, it had such high hopes for its triple lock. It claimed it was the best gun it had ever made and yet, just eight years later, the triple lock was redundant: it was a triumph of rhetoric over reality. The same might be said of the Government’s triple lock. This is the third year it has been in operation, and we know that the increase in the state pension is less than it would have been if the uprating method used by the previous Government was still in place. My right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham eloquently dissected that aspect of the case.

It is worse than that, however. The triple lock this year has produced a real-terms cut in the value of the basic state pension. The Minister shakes his head, but listening to his exchange with my right hon. Friend, one could only feel that the Minister wants to have his proverbial cake and eat it. Last year, the Minister trumpeted that he had delivered the highest real-terms increase in the state pension for about 10 years. Having in all seriousness claimed that credit, it is difficult for him now to avoid the blame for the very same mechanism that is producing a real-terms cut in the state pension.

I took a look at the Minister’s website this evening, just to see whether there was any further evidence of his liking to have his cake and eat it. What did I find? The Minister is calling and campaigning for his local citizens advice bureau to be protected from council cuts. Earlier in the debate, however, he defended strongly the council tax freeze as an important contribution to improving family income. I will let the House make its mind up on this second case of having cake and eating it.

[Mr Reid]

The pension increase is higher than both the rate of inflation and the increase in earnings. The hon. Gentleman seems to disagree with the 2.5% figure that the Government are putting forward. Will he tell us what the percentage increase in the pension would be if Labour were in power?

[Gregg McClymont]

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that inflation is now 2.7%, and that the pension is to be uprated by 2.5%? I do not have my abacus with me—maybe the hon. Gentleman should have one—but that seems like a real-terms cut to me.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Reid]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for being generous in giving way. He knows perfectly well that under the previous Government and under this Government the rate of inflation in the previous September is used to calculate the pension increase for the following year. That has not changed, and this pension increase is higher than the rate of inflation at the standard time at which it is calculated.

[Gregg McClymont]

As far as I could take from that further intervention, the hon. Gentleman still maintains that inflation is less than 2.5%, when in fact it is 2.7%. [Interruption.] The Minister makes a comment from a sedentary position. If he wants to intervene I will be happy to let him, but before he does so let me deal with the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Mr Reid). It is clear that CPI inflation is currently 2.7%. The basic state pension is to be uprated by 2.5%. Is that, or is that not, a real-terms cut? It obviously is. Would the hon. Gentleman like to intervene again?

[Mr Reid]

I still have not got the answer to the question I asked the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), and I am now asking the hon. Gentleman. If Labour was in power, what would the pension increase be?

[Gregg McClymont]

I am still waiting for the hon. Gentleman to confess that he was absolutely wrong to suggest that this is an above-inflation increase. That leads to some questions about the ability of the Liberal Democrats to devise economic and financial policy when they do not know the current rate of inflation and how it relates to the basic state pension.

Pensions Bill [Lords]

Debate between Alan Reid and Gregg McClymont

Tuesday 18th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Gregg McClymont]

We are clear that we cannot have constant changes in pensions legislation. One of the problems that we face is precisely that— constant chopping and changing of the timetable, so we will vote for our amendments tonight in the hope that in their wisdom the Government will accept them. In that case we will all be happy, or at least those of us on the Opposition Benches.

[Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD)]

Having been born in 1954, I need to declare an interest in the debate. The hon. Gentleman has argued for the spending of an extra £10 billion, but he cannot come to the Dispatch Box and argue for that without saying where the money is coming from. Is he going to put taxes up, cut some other spending programme or borrow more money? Will he please tell us?

[Gregg McClymont]

To make the position clear to the hon. Gentleman, we are proposing savings of £20 billion. The Government are proposing savings of £30 billion. These savings will come into effect from 2016. No sensible Opposition or indeed Government would set out a spending plan for the next Parliament five years before it would come into effect. If the hon. Gentleman considers his position to be credible, the difficulties that the Liberal Democrats are facing become a little easier to understand.