International Development (Scotland’s Role)

Debate between Alan Duncan and Eilidh Whiteford

Wednesday 4th September 2013 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department for International Development (Mr Alan Duncan)]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar) for securing this debate. I very much appreciate his kind and appreciative comments about DFID and, more importantly, the staff who work so hard.

As we talk today, the International Development Committee is, as the hon. Gentleman said, holding an inquiry into the implications for development in the event of Scotland becoming an independent country. The Committee has yet to present its analysis and report, so, out of respect for the processes of the House, I will not anticipate the outcome of the inquiry.

I welcome the chance, however, to set out the Government’s plans for the UK’s international development programme and to consider the role Scotland plays in it. Let me be clear at the outset: the UK Government want Scotland to remain an integral part of the UK, because that is what is best for all of us. Scotland benefits from being part of the UK, and the UK benefits from having Scotland in the UK. The UK Government are hopeful that, when people in Scotland come to make their choice, they will choose to remain part of the UK.

On the evidence and analysis available so far, I am very clear that the UK, with Scotland in it, can continue to have a significant international development impact, providing excellent value for money to taxpayers at home and making a significant difference to the poorest and most vulnerable people across the world. Scottish taxpayers, like all UK taxpayers, can be proud of the contribution they make to the UK’s official development assistance—otherwise known as ODA—and I see no case for changing that.

The UK is one of the world’s leaders in the fight against poverty. On provisional data, the UK provided £8.6 billion of ODA in 2012. That places us second only to the USA, just ahead of Germany and then France. This year we will do even better, as the first G8 country to achieve the global 0.7% target. That is a tremendous achievement, which brings with it great responsibility for DFID.

The size and reach of DFID’s programme enable UK aid to have a huge impact. We are proud of the results we have delivered towards the millennium development goals. To give just a few examples, since 2010, UK aid has supported 5.9 million children—half of them girls—to go to primary school; given 19.6 million people access to clean water and sanitation; prevented 12.9 million children and pregnant women from going hungry; and enabled more than 30 million men and women to work their way out of poverty through access to financial services. I am sure we can agree that those figures are very impressive indeed.

DFID delivers major results through its significant funding of multilateral organisations, which helps draw in other donors who add their contributions to those effective multilateral organisations. In 2012, for example, the multilaterals supported by DFID gave food assistance to more than 97 million people and immunised 46 million children against preventable diseases. The UK, together, has a significant impact on the lives of the poor as a responsible 0.7% donor. We can always do better, but the Government believe that we are stronger and more influential when we work together.

I will now analyse why size and reputation help the UK make a bigger impact. First, DFID’s size and global reputation create opportunities to shape international efforts in ways that are consistent with UK values. The Prime Minister’s pivotal role in shaping the framework that follows the MDGs and the co-chairing of the Global Partnership for Effective Development Co-operation by the Secretary of State for International Development are examples that ultimately aim to give global development more impact per £1 spent. That is about being clear on what we are trying to achieve, measuring and reporting on it and working with the right partners. The UK as a whole, together, is leading the way on that.

Alongside that, we have real influence within the multilateral system. The World Bank’s International Development Association, a major provider of interest-free loans to the world’s poorest countries, is an effective example. UK aid typically accounts for between 10% and 14% of donor contributions, giving us a powerful voice in fund governance structures. IDA was assessed in the groundbreaking DFID multilateral aid review as very good value for money. It is poverty focused, provides quality technical expertise and has a huge global reach. Because of DFID’s size and reputation—something that would be reduced if we were fragmented—the World Bank works closely with us to keep improving the impact on matters that reflect UK values, such as addressing the needs of girls and women and delivering better in fragile states.

[Dr Whiteford]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Duncan]

I will give way to the hon. Lady, but am I to understand from her earlier intervention that the SNP would guarantee the jobs of everyone in Abercrombie house if the Scottish people were to vote for independence?

[Dr Whiteford]

I will come back to the Minister’s question in a moment.

Is the Minister really saying that an independent English DFID would lose its status in the world? That seems a preposterous assertion from a Conservative Minister.

The SNP has pledged that there will be no compulsory redundancies in public sector jobs for which it is currently responsible. Obviously, if Scotland were to take on new responsibilities, it would need to resource those functions. Scottish people of all parties are committed to meeting their obligation to provide 0.7% of gross national income in ODA, but if we were to have an international development budget of some £900 million, we would surely need a civil service to administer that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Duncan]

I detect in the hon. Lady’s answer an unequivocal no disguised as equivocation. If she is saying that I am wrong to say that she would not guarantee the jobs of everyone at Abercrombie house, I will give her the chance to rebut it immediately.

[Dr Whiteford]

I would rather that the Minister addressed my question. Does he really think that England, on its own, needs Scotland to prop up its international development work?

[Mr Duncan]

I believe that the United Kingdom would be weaker without Scotland, which is a clear answer to the hon. Lady’s question; I regret that she has been unable to give a clear answer to mine.

[Mr Duncan]

I will leave it to the Select Committee to analyse that in greater detail, but I point out, more generally, that the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) has been unable to give a clear answer, despite the illusion and impression that she is trying to convey. I ask her once again: does she, or does she not, guarantee the jobs of those in Abercrombie house should there be independence for Scotland?

[Dr Whiteford]

The Scottish Government have made it very clear that they will need civil servants to do such jobs post-independence. Look at our record to date: we have secured people’s jobs through the toughest recession and the UK Government’s shameless austerity measures. Why would that change?

[Mr Duncan]

That answer shows that the hon. Lady’s so-called public sector jobs guarantee amounts to nothing and is a political deceit.

The UK’s global reach matters. We have a strong, professional DFID presence in 28 focus countries, and we have widely respected multi-million pound programmes, many of which are worth between £50 million and £250 million a year. Partner Governments seek advice from DFID, which translates into better development.

None of that would be possible without our staff. DFID’s size and ambition allows us to attract and retain the best talent. Front-line staff have technical and specialist skills, such as in economics, health, governance, social development and accountancy. Our staff are able to build fulfilling careers in an organisation with a wide scope.

So what should Scotland’s role be in the UK’s international development effort? Scotland already makes a significant contribution to UK international development, and the contribution Scottish taxpayers make to the UK’s total international development budget is important. DFID has a sizeable headquarters in Abercrombie house in East Kilbride. More than 600 staff in Scotland form an intrinsic part of the team that delivers the UK’s entire international development impact. Responsibilities at Abercrombie house range from professional oversight of DFID’s finance, procurement, human resources and IT functions to the development of policy and research agendas. Staff working equally from East Kilbride and London contribute to the coalition Government’s international development priorities, such as the Prime Minister’s push to end global hunger and malnutrition. The Department delivers excellent value for money for all UK taxpayers and provides significant high quality job opportunities in Scotland.

The Scottish Government have their own small £9 million programme, which is funded from the devolved budget and contributes to the UK’s official development assistance. Working relations between DFID and the Scottish Government are strong and there is regular contact and co-operation.

The real question is whether it would make development sense for an independent Scotland to start afresh and to develop the capacity to manage its own programme, aiming for 0.7%, or even more, of its own gross national income. It is not for us to speculate on how an independent Scottish development agency would or could operate; it is for those advocating independence to make the case that independence would have a greater overall impact on international development.