Intellectual Property Bill [HL]
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Jenkin of Roding
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My Lords, I turn now to Amendments 24A and 24B. I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Jenkin for the constructive spirit in which he has offered them and indeed that he has agreed to wait for the results of the meeting to which he alluded. These amendments are related to the repeal of Section 52 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 through the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act 2013. For the benefit of the Committee, and indeed of the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, I ask noble Lords to let me summarise briefly the reasons for the change.
The Government wish to ensure that all categories of artistic work enjoy the full term of copyright protection; that is, the life of the creator plus 70 years. Some artistic works that were industrially produced had 25 years’ protection. Once the repeal comes into force, which will take place after the consultation on the timing of the repeal and publication of a new impact assessment, these works will have the same term of protection. If a particular type of table is an artistic work protected by copyright, one will not be able to make a physical replica or reproduce an image of that table in a book without permission. Similarly, one will need the rights owner’s consent to make wallpaper that reproduced an artistic work, such as a print. Designers and companies that own rights in classic design furniture have been supportive of this change. As my noble friend Lord Jenkin said, next week my officials are meeting representatives of one such company as part of the Government’s ongoing dialogue with interested parties. We shall see what comes of that.
I am grateful that my noble friend Lord Jenkin continues to pay such close attention to the details of this change and for the intervention from the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, but I am not convinced that any further changes are necessary or desirable until the consultation has been completed.
Lord Jenkin of Roding
My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend. Perhaps I may respond very briefly to the noble Lord, Lord Howarth. A month or two ago I was approached by, as it happens, a British company which complained bitterly about Section 52 extending the period from 25 years to life plus 70 years. I took the matter up with my right honourable friend and discussed it with one or two other people. They said, “Ha ha. Yes, of course. They use nothing but Chinese-manufactured fakes. They are simply importing imitations of these hugely important artistic designs. Of course they are cross about it because it is their business”. The fact is that that company has been behaving rather disreputably. The repeal of Section 52 is intended to give the designs the protection that my noble friend has indicated is the intention of the Government. We will have to have this debate later. In the mean time, I am grateful for what the Minister said and beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Jenkin of Roding
Lord Jenkin of Roding
My Lords, I very much support this. I believe that it is a very worthwhile amendment. I cannot understand why somebody who is claiming the right to be the copyright owner of an orphan work should have to assert his right from the beginning. He will not know about this, as it is a requirement that will be hidden in the legislation. I cannot for the life of me understand why he has to do this in advance, as it were. It is an unnecessary restriction and requirement to be placed on the shoulders of an individual, perhaps an artist, writer or musician, who says that they are the author and owner of an intellectual property, only to be told that they have not asserted their right from the beginning. I do not believe that that is right.
I hope that my noble friend will look on this amendment sympathetically and, even if he cannot accept the words, undertake to have a good look at the issue and perhaps meet some of the people concerned, with a view to having something put into the Bill at Third Reading. I think that my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones has made a very sound point in moving this amendment.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My Lords, the noble Lord’s proposed amendment would make automatic the right to be identified as the author of a work. Currently Section 78 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 provides that moral rights, including the right to be identified or attributed, must be asserted to take effect. The Government appreciate that there is a legitimate debate around the issue of moral rights, particularly the right to attribution. Some stakeholders would like to see the moral rights of creators strengthened further. The Government acknowledge that there are creators who would like to see the right of attribution become automatic and some who would also like it to be unwaivable. We are also aware, however, that other creators take the view that moral rights, such as the right of attribution, can have an economic value. These creators argue that they should be free to decide whether to exploit that value.
As can be seen, this is a complex area on which creators hold strong and often differing views. The economic question of the cost of using works is an important one. Changing the law on moral rights would affect many groups in different ways. It is not an insignificant question and would require a full consultation. I hope that these words help to answer some of the questions raised by my noble friend Lord Jenkin and that, in the light of what I have just said, my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones feels able to withdraw his amendment.
Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Jenkin of Roding
Lord Jenkin of Roding
Before my noble friend goes on to discuss auctions, will he give some indication of how long it will take for the Government to study the substantial report to which he referred, and how long he thinks it will take for the DCLG Select Committee at the other end to produce its report? I understand both his arguments—there is a substantial report from the OFT and there is also that Select Committee report—but we really do not want to have to wait for ever.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My noble friend makes a very good point. I can reassure him that the Select Committee report is due out very soon. It is likely to be in May; it may even be as early as April. That is not a guarantee, but I hope that it gives a helpful indication as to what the timing might be.
None the less, I recognise that the issue of a lack of redress is a serious one, and I know that my honourable friend in the other place, the Housing Minister Mark Prisk, considers this a serious issue, too, and is giving it the most serious consideration. We will reflect very carefully on this and other recent debates, and I am sure that the Housing Minister will keep in touch with Peers who have spoken today.
I shall turn as fast as I can to Amendment 82. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, for having brought this issue to my attention and to that of the House. I have considered carefully the amendment and the arguments for introducing it. The Government are of course concerned to hear that buyers may be experiencing difficulties when trying to purchase a property at auction, especially if it involves first-time buyers. I am pleased to say that there is already legislation in place designed to address just this sort of unfair practice. Therefore, new legislation will not change the position regarding consumer protection in such matters. I will explain why.
Under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, auctioneers, like traders in all sectors of the economy, are required in their dealings with consumers to treat them fairly and not mislead them. Under the CPRs, there are also a number of business practices that are considered unfair in all circumstances and are prohibited. When marketing a property, it is prohibited to use bait tactics such as luring bidders to auctions using pricing techniques, which the noble Lord raised as an example. OFT guidance on the CPRs published last September, of which the industry should be fully aware, gives the specific example of guide prices not being distorted to attract potential buyers.
Where traders treat consumers unfairly, they may face criminal or civil enforcement action. Enforcement of the CPRs is by the OFT and local authority trading standards services. We are, of course, in the process of better equipping trading standards to take greater responsibility for consumer law enforcement, and will be transferring central government funding for national leadership and co-ordination of enforcement activity from the OFT to the National Trading Standards Board. In addition, the new Competition and Markets Authority will have consumer enforcement powers to address business practices that distort competition or impact on consumer choice in otherwise competitive markets.
Furthermore, I understand that the industry encourages fair practice in this area and offers guidance and training. For example, the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors provides best practice guidance for auctioneers selling real estate. Such guidance addresses price guides and states that these guides must not be misleading, advising that a price guide that is clearly below the figure that the seller will accept is misleading. As best practice it also says that auctioneers should clearly indicate in the catalogue that price guides may be subject to amendment during the period leading up to the day and time of the auction sale.
In the light of the consumer protection legislation already in place, and as we have not seen any evidence on which a change of legislation could be justified, we do not feel the necessity to change legislation in this area. The noble Lord may wish to write to the OFT, providing evidence of the experiences and findings in this matter that are causing him concern. I hope that he is reassured by my answer and that he will therefore not press his amendment. I note that this is a new issue that was not raised in Committee and I acknowledge his apology. However, I believe that he raised some interesting points that we will keep in our sights. I also ask the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, to withdraw her amendment.
Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill
Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Jenkin of Roding(11 years, 10 months ago)
Grand CommitteeRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Lord Jenkin of Roding
My Lords, contrary to the figures in front of us on the chart, we have actually spent over an hour on the first amendment. I do not, therefore, want to take more time. I thank all those who have taken part in the debate. I think it justified what I said at the beginning about the level of support there is for, if not this particular amendment then the recognition that “all is not well”—to quote the noble Baroness, Lady Morris. All is not well in the field of copyright. I leave the Minister with this thought. The Government have got to do a great deal more if they are going to regain the confidence of copyright owners. I heard what he said and I shall study it carefully. However, there is no question about it, those of us who have been exposed over recent months to the considerable expressions of dismay and, indeed, fear for the future on the behalf of IP owners are left in doubt at all that, as the noble Baroness said, all is not well.
The argument of the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, for seeking balance, is probably what the IPO claims that it would be doing. The fact of the matter is that it has lost the confidence of all those who are concerned as the owners of IP. Something has to be done in order to get the improvement in the whole copyright structure that is widely sought. It may well be that the director-general proposal will need to be looked at again in the light of what has been said in the debate about it. One point I would make is that the all-party group recommended that it come under the Secretary of State for DCMS whereas the IPO comes under BIS. The amendment says “Secretary of State” and that covers all of them, so the amendment does not distinguish.
I agree with what has been said. There is a lack of co-ordination across Whitehall—a lack of the same kind of recognition of the importance of IP lying at the heart of our economy, and it will increasingly lie at the heart of our economy as it becomes even more based on intellectual property and less on manual labour. We have got to look at this very carefully. Parliament has an opportunity to express its views. I have no doubt at all that we shall want to return to the matter at Report. I give notice to my noble friend that I expect that is what we will do, but we will study what he has said very carefully. In the mean time, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
Before my noble friend sits down, I hope that it is in order briefly to answer my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones and to confirm that we can include the detail on licensing within the IPO report in future.