Welfare Reform Bill

Debate between Viscount Ullswater and Lord Freud

Tuesday 1st November 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Freud]

My Lords, after spending four years writing the Lex column, I am absolutely aware that I cannot answer the question of the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, off the top of my head. The definition of profits is a knotty and complicated issue that he is absolutely right to focus on. We need to get it right after detailed consideration. Of course it is a long-standing policy that people should be treated as having income or capital in cases of deliberate deprivation. This will continue under universal credit. However, we also think that it is right in principle to apply a minimum income floor to claimants who choose to be self-employed but whose earnings do not make them financially self-sufficient. Because universal credit is a benefit for people in and out of work, the issues around self-employment are different from the issues faced in the current system.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Viscount Ullswater)]

My Lords, there is a Division in the House. The Committee will adjourn for 10 minutes.