Energy Bill
Debate between Viscount Ridley and Lord Jenkin of Roding
Viscount Ridley (Con)
My Lords, I support the noble Lord, Lord Judd, in his amendment. I declare my interests as listed in the register.
I have only one minor correction to make. It is very important to draw attention to the fourth leg of the quadlemma, but we should really be calling it a tetralemma if we are going to be consistent in Greek. It is important that the concerns that the noble Lord has raised, which are vital to communities all over the country, about the desecration of landscapes that is being visited on them should be taken seriously. I look forward very much to what I hope will be a reassuring reply from the Minister.
Lord Jenkin of Roding
One thing which seemed to be missing from the letter to which the noble Lord, Lord Judd, referred was the role of the Environment Agency. I have raised this before. There are two separate agencies. There is Ofgem, as the regulator, and then there is the Environment Agency, which has some very specific responsibilities in this direction. When my noble friend replies to the debate, I hope she will put this in context.
I totally understand the point that has been made by the noble Lord, Lord Judd. I will not use the Latin, but the trouble is that what you put into one list automatically excludes anything else. That is a canon of legal construction. My noble friend has made it very clear that when there was a list of people who would be looked after socially—the disabled and chronically sick, those of pensionable age, those on low incomes and those residing in rural areas—that should not be taken as implying that regard might not be had to the interests of other types of consumer. That statement was made by the Minister, obviously on advice, so that I think the social thing is all right, but I accept the point that my noble friend Lord Ridley has made. We need to make sure that the environment is properly protected, but I had always understood that that was primarily the responsibility of the Environment Agency and other similar organisations. I hope that my noble friend can put this into context.
Lord Jenkin of Roding
I will just add one point before my noble friend replies. I was very glad to hear her say that she would rather this was done voluntarily, but a back-up power is important to encourage the right response from the industry. I apologise to the right reverend Prelate. I was moving amendments on this subject during proceedings on the last energy Bill but one. Those amendments suggested that we needed to see more detail in the Bill. As other noble Lords have said, one needs to have a very clear view as to what these figures actually mean, which is not always apparent. I get bills with pie charts and other things from British Gas. I have one in front of me, to which I have referred before, from Southern Electric. Many of them try to do their best, but such is the lack of trust now between the public and the industry that the public need to be reassured that the figures actually mean what they say. I look forward to seeing what comes from this but, along with other noble Lords, I very much welcome these amendments.
Viscount Ridley
My Lords, as someone who spoke in favour of the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, on Report, I, too, welcome this amendment and think that it goes in exactly the right direction. I particularly welcome the emphasis on voluntary reporting, which will result in a much more flexible and effective way of finding out exactly what these costs are, and where they are, than if we tried to micromanage it by specifying the details ourselves as hopeless legislators rather than people who know how these things are done.