Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill

Debate between Viscount Eccles and Lord Mendelsohn

Wednesday 14th January 2015 Grand Committee

[Lord Mendelsohn]

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendment 35R. I will be mercifully brief on this group. In trying to express our support for the Government, saying less may be more.

The Bill says that the Minister,

“may issue guidance relating to regulations under this section”.

Proposing a change from “may” to “shall” enables us to debate the wider issue of guidance relating to small businesses and public procurement, and what should be included in the guidance.

Amendment 35R is in keeping with the recommendation from the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee that regulations about procurement be subject to the affirmative procedure. We agree that in these matters delegation is appropriate as the powers are so wide and there is great potential for significant consequences, both negatively and positively. We also agree that on procurement matters in general it is entirely sensible to make regulations under Clause 38 subject to the affirmative procedure. The approach of not just this Committee and this House but the other place suggests that there is a great deal to be gained through the positive engagement of both Houses. I beg to move.

[Viscount Eccles (Con)]

My Lords, it is the very width of the potential of these two enabling clauses that worries me. In a way, bringing in “shall” in the amendment and accepting the recommendation that the resolution procedure should be affirmative gives Parliament a certain leverage to debate whatever the Government are intending to do. However, I am reminded that sometimes when people put up very sensible amendments Ministers do very well in arguing that they are not necessary. They say that things are all right as they are and that the matter is already being dealt with. We have heard a certain amount of that this afternoon.

I have been listening to this debate—I hope, carefully—thinking about the comments on existing legislation, thinking about all that is going on in this area in a period of financial stringency, when you would expect a lot to be going on, listening to my noble friend Lord Young, for example, and thinking about my noble friend on the Front Bench and the impending transposition of European directives on the subject. We have had a very interesting debate but I ask whether the case for these two enabling clauses has really been made. Is it not perhaps true that there is not an impelling need for them? Many good things are going on.

Therefore, my challenge to my noble friend is the question: what is the reality of the added value that will accrue from these enabling clauses, always remembering that enabling legislation is inherently not very satisfactory? I think that I revert to the position adopted very early in the afternoon by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, who is no longer in his place. He said that he was not entirely sure that these two clauses were necessary. However, I will read the draft regulations with great care. I am sorry that I did not realise that they were already available a few days before this debate. That is remiss of me. I will read them very carefully, and it may well be that before Report I will conclude that there is some added value, although at the moment I have my doubts.