Defamation Bill

Debate between Viscount Colville of Culross and Baroness Bakewell

Wednesday 19th December 2012 Grand Committee

[Viscount Colville of Culross]

I declare an interest as a journalist, producer and director at the BBC. I support Amendments 14, 16 and 21. In my Second Reading speech, I expressed concern about the chilling effects on free speech through the use of all 10 factors in the Reynolds defence as a checklist by lawyers trying to affect investigations both prior to publication and in destroying the public interest defence statement once something has been published.

In the letter sent to all Peers on 10 December, the Minister said that he was honouring his commitment given at the conclusion of Second Reading to look again at Clause 4. In the intervening period he has worked with the noble Lord, Lord Lester, and other distinguished libel lawyers to formulate a new wording for the clause. The wording they came up with to amend Clause 4 is very satisfactory and addresses my concerns.

Any amendment must not be a charter for reckless statements that hide behind the shield of a public interest defence. Amendment 14 contains the crucial words, “the defendant reasonably believed”, which replace, “acted responsibly”. Amendment 16 would drop the list of factors altogether. Some supporters of free speech fear that the words “reasonably believed” will allow the courts to work up yet another list of factors that can be used as criteria for what is reasonable. However, the amendment will allow serious journalists, NGOs and scientists who are reporting on matters that they consider to be in the public interest to use their own checklist of what is reasonable. I talked to my colleagues at the BBC who were preparing Monday’s “Panorama” programme on the Barclay brothers’ tax affairs, which had been months in preparation. They had dealt with multiple firms to get the programme on air. This would have been extremely helpful to them by bringing a very important public interest defence to a debate about tax avoidance by people who are extremely important in the affairs of our country. I am very grateful that the amendment has been brought forward.

As a journalist I do everything I can to check the veracity of claims that I intend to publish; to question at length the witnesses; to check out by any other means the truth of witnesses’ evidence; to find other supporting witnesses where possible; and to ask an individual, or an authoritative representative of an organisation being investigated, to reply. But sometimes, despite one’s best efforts, it is not possible to get a satisfactory reply from a person or an organisation being investigated. Very often that means one cannot publish. However, I am convinced that with this amendment I would be safeguarded by the Clause 4 defence when publishing a statement that would be in the public interest. I am very reassured by that.

I welcome Amendment 21, which further strengthens the hand of the author by making allowance for editorial judgment. It includes the words, “considers appropriate”, to ensure that the amendment is never used just for reckless statements. Not only will the amendment comply with the Flood decision that editorial judgment should be taken into account, but the many people who are worried by the quality of editorial judgments revealed in the report of Lord Justice Leveson will be reassured that the courts will have the final say on the nature of editorial judgments exercised in the publication of an article or statement. For far too long, responsible authors who want to publish in the public interest have been cowed by our libel laws. The people of this country have a right to be presented with matters of public interest so that they can have at least an informed choice in a debate on the subject. The amendments to Clause 4 tabled by the Government will boost democracy and accountability in this country. They are a great step forward.

[Baroness Bakewell]

My Lords, I had not intended to speak but I am one of the campaigners, and one of the signatories to many appeals, for the reform of the libel laws. I am a journalist and I am at risk. I am at risk every day I write or report for the BBC or anyone else. I regard myself as the focus of Clause 4 and how it might affect my livelihood, my reputation and the cases which I report when I make a programme. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, will not press his amendment, but I was alarmed when he spoke about the defendant acting,

“fairly as to the manner, balance and content,

of the statement that they make. Each of those words is a millstone around the neck of a journalist, who of course will seek to please his employer but also to be fair to the public. Each one of those words can be interpreted in so many ways that I foresee—following what we heard—conversations going on for months in the “Panorama” office about each of them.

That is why I appreciate and commend the Bill and Amendment 14, which leaves things clear and lets us know where we stand. Amendment 21 provides for responsibility and allows for the discussion covered by Amendment 23, which states:

“In determining whether it was reasonable for the defendant to believe that publishing the statement complained of was in the public interest, the court must have regard to all the circumstances of the case”.

Those are going to be innumerable and may move in many directions, but they are what journalists want to see because it makes them both responsible and true professionals. I support the amendment.