Mohammed Ahmed Mohamed

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 4th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

With two suspects on the run, no powers of relocation and a number of the current orders due to end early next year, is it now the Home Secretary’s policy to phase out the use of TPIMs?

[Mrs May]

TPIMs remain on the statute book as a tool that can be used when it is most appropriate to do so. I am sure the right hon. Gentleman and I agree that we would prefer to see anyone who is in any way involved in terrorism being prosecuted, convicted and sent to jail. As David Anderson has said, the only really secure place for someone who is a terrorist is behind bars. TPIMs remain on the statute book as a tool to be used when it is operationally appropriate to do so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 15th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. We are introducing those amendments to the Extradition Act and others through the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill, and I understand from the Minister of State, my hon. Friend the hon. Member for Taunton Deane (Mr Browne), that they will be considered in Committee tomorrow. It is important to ensure that we can add extra safeguards for British citizens who are being extradited under the European arrest warrant.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

I am sure that the Home Secretary will agree that dealing with historical sexual abuse requires effective support for victims and witnesses. A constituent of mine has recently been identified as a potential witness in a serious case going back many years, which has caused him great distress, and it does not help that the investigating police force is located some 200 miles away from where he now lives. Will she look at what effective liaison and support could be provided by the local police in such cases?

Abu Qatada (Deportation)

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 8th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

The right hon. Gentleman should not be surprised that I or indeed any of his Conservative colleagues in the coalition should stand up and talk about repealing the Human Rights Act, because we were all elected to the House on a party manifesto that had exactly that within it. In relation to the European convention, we do, I believe, as a country, have to look at our relationship with the European Court and the operation of the convention. We need to do so because of some of the cases that we have seen, and national security cases are a particular concern when we cannot deport someone for a significant period of time—if at all, potentially—because of the interpretation by the European Court of the convention. It is only sensible when beginning to work on this that we accept that all options should be on the table, and we do not rule anything out before we have done the work.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

May I, too, congratulate the Home Secretary and the security Minister on all the work they have done to see Abu Qatada removed to Jordan? In all the ups and downs over the years of dealing with this man, there was a time just a few months ago when it looked as if he might be freed from prison and freed from bail. The only option the Home Secretary would have had at that point would be to put him on a terrorism prevention and investigation measure. Given that at that moment she must have realised the inadequacy of TPIMs, what plans does she have to review them, especially as David Anderson has warned that early next year a number of dangerous individuals on TPIMs will be free to roam the streets?

[Mrs May]

This is a debate that we have had across the House and that I have had with the right hon. Gentleman on a number of occasions. The Government brought in the Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Act 2011 and we are operating those TPIMs against a number of individuals, as he knows. As he is also aware, when TPIMs were introduced instead of the control orders that his Government had brought in, we also introduced, through some extra funding, measures to enhance the ability of the Security Service and the police to deal with these individuals, and we are confident in the package that was produced.

Undercover Policing

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 24th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

As part of the work that we are doing to expand the remit of the IPCC so that it can look into all serious allegations against police officers, we are discussing with the commission the extra resources that will need to be made available in order to ensure that it can do that. There is of course always a tension between the need for a timely response to an allegation and the need to ensure that the investigation has been conducted properly. We shall be discussing with the IPCC the level of resource that it needs to ensure that it can undertake the extra duties that we require of it.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

The Home Secretary referred in her statement to last year’s report from Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary, which made a number of recommendations about the authorisation arrangements for undercover operations. On several occasions, she has mentioned new legislation in relation to operations lasting more than 12 months, but does she have any measures in mind that would strengthen the arrangements for serious operations lasting less than 12 months?

[Mrs May]

Yes, we have been looking at this, and HMIC will be reporting on the extent to which there is better management of those deployments of officers. One of the issues that came up in the Mark Kennedy case, which initiated that HMIC report, related not only to the length of time an individual had been operating in a particular undercover operation but to whether there had been proper management of the deployment during the course of the operation. That is something that we and HMIC will be returning to.

Ibrahim Magag

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Tuesday 8th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I certainly agree with my hon. Friend that it is important to improve and develop the ability of the agencies to have access to communications data. That, if I might gently remind my hon. Friend, is not about intercepting data. Intercept of data is a separate issue under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, but it is true that we need access to those communications data. As terrorists and others—organised criminals, paedophiles and others—use new means to communicate, it is important that the Government have access to the communications data from those new means of communications.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

The Home Secretary has repeated several times this afternoon that the Security Service and the police advised that there would be no substantial increase in risk as a result of the introduction of TPIMs, but the question that she is singularly failing to answer is how she can justify any increase in risk to the safety of this nation. Or is she saying that the absconding of Mr Magag and the more relaxed conditions that allowed it to happen are now part of an additional but acceptable risk that she is prepared to take?

[Mrs May]

I say to the right hon. Gentleman, as I have said to him on a number of occasions, because he has asked a number of questions in relation to TPIMs—[Interruption.] He says from a sedentary position that he will continue to do so, and I will continue to answer them in the same way. When we looked at the legislation, we did introduce the TPIMs. One of the purposes of the TPIMs was to ensure that people were better able to find evidence that would lead to prosecutions. Extra resources were given to the Security Service and the police at the time, and the Security Service and the police at the time and now are clear that there was no substantial increase in risk.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 19th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

13. When she plans to meet the police and crime commissioner for Greater Manchester.

[The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May)]

I welcome Tony Lloyd to his new role as the first police and crime commissioner for Greater Manchester. I am writing, I hope today, to all PCCs in advance of their assuming office on Thursday, to congratulate them and to invite them to join me and my ministerial team for an event on 3 December.

[Paul Goggins]

I am grateful for that answer and for the warm welcome from the Home Secretary. I am sure that when she meets Tony Lloyd, she will want to thank him for standing in the election because without Labour last Thursday, the turnout in Greater Manchester would have been lower than 7%. Given the level of concern expressed during the campaign about antisocial behaviour, will she review her current approach and, instead of rebranding and weakening antisocial behaviour orders, will she work with Tony Lloyd and other police and crime commissioners to strengthen the law in this respect so that those who make other people’s lives unbearable can be dealt with effectively?

[Mrs May]

I note that Tony Lloyd, referring to the turnout at the elections, said:

“It doesn’t take away the mandate of the PCC… That, like any good politician, is earned not only at the election; it’s earned by working with the public, being there to listen to the public and to represent the public.”

On antisocial behaviour orders, we are strengthening the ability of the police and others to work against antisocial behaviour. Crucially, we are giving local communities and individuals greater powers, such as the community trigger, which will enable people, if action is not being taken on antisocial behaviour, to require that action is taken. That did not happen under the Labour party.

Abu Qatada

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 12th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

We are pursuing all avenues of discussion with the Jordanian Government to see what can be done to address the important point that the judgment has raised. My hon. Friend referred to Justice Mitting. I would point out that, although I obviously disagree with the judgment today, Justice Mitting has given a number of judgments favourable to the Government in deportation cases, so I suggest that my hon. Friend take a more rounded view of the judge’s decisions.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

The Home Secretary has highlighted the contradictions in the SIAC judgment, and she is right to seek an appeal. Members on both sides of the House are horrified at the prospect of this man walking freely around the streets of London, or indeed anywhere else in the country. Does she propose to provide further information to the Court of Appeal—perhaps, for example, in the form of a request for a personal appearance by the Jordanian ambassador—to make it absolutely clear that the assurances that she gave to SIAC can be relied on?

[Mrs May]

Obviously, we will look at every avenue that it would be appropriate to follow in order to uphold our case and to get what we all want, which is the deportation of Abu Qatada. If we look at the judgment, however, we can see that SIAC has been very clear about the vast majority of assurances in relation to the fair trial that Abu Qatada would receive, to his personal treatment, to his ability to have access to defence lawyers and so on. The problem lay with the one point about the admissibility of evidence and, even in that regard, the judgment refers to the fact that there would be the possibility of cross-examination in relation to such evidence. Justice Mitting still came to this decision, however. We will appeal it, and we will fight our case as strongly as we can.

Child Abuse Allegations (North Wales)

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Tuesday 6th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I am very happy to raise that issue with the Law Officers in relation to what happens in court. We have made considerable progress in dealing with victims of these crimes in court, but I recognise that some still find it very difficult to give evidence, and without that evidence the prosecution is often not possible.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

I also welcome the statement and the speed with which the Home Secretary has made it. In recent days she and her officials will have rightly been in close discussion with North Wales police about the work to be done by Keith Bristow, and it is very welcome that the Home Office is offering financial support. When serious issues such as these have to be dealt with in future, what role will police and crime commissioners have in discussions between the Home Office and local police forces? What part will they play in making decisions about future action?

[Mrs May]

The police and crime commissioner will replace the police authority. There will be certain circumstances in which it is right, as it would have been for the police authority, for the commissioner to be part of initiating a particular piece of work. There will be other circumstances in which it is entirely right for the chief constable to do that.

European Justice and Home Affairs Powers

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 15th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

My hon. Friend, with his legal experience, will be well aware of many such problems. As I have said, a number of people have commented on the issue of proportionality. I entirely agree that for the Opposition to complain now that the Government are proposing to exercise an opt-out that they themselves negotiated leaves them with no credibility whatever.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

The Home Secretary may have persuaded herself, and perhaps even some of her colleagues, that she has adopted a sophisticated position, but I tell her that confusion is the friend of the criminal. I, for one, am deeply concerned about this hokey-cokey approach to justice in this country and across Europe, especially on such deeply serious issues as organised crime, child abuse online and drug and people trafficking. Any sense of confusion is deeply worrying.

Although The Sunday Telegraph might have sought to trivialise some European arrest warrant cases, I remind the Home Secretary, as did my right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper), of Hussain Osman. He was brought back from Italy to stand trial for his part in the 21 July bombings and got a 40-year prison sentence.

[Mrs May]

I fully understand the cases cited by the right hon. Gentleman, and others, in relation to this matter. On the other hand, however, concerns have been raised about proportionality in relation to the European arrest warrant. That is why it is right for the Government to sit down and look carefully at this issue, and take a decision on the European arrest warrant and the terms under which it might be possible to opt in. Part of the negotiations with the European Commission and member states is precisely about those terms.

I say to the right hon. Gentleman, and to others, that his Government negotiated an opt-out, so he cannot stand there and complain when the current Government propose to exercise it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 15th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

As my hon. Friend says, a statement on justice and home affairs matters in the European Commission in respect of the UK relationship with the EU is due very shortly. I expect to respond on the matter of extradition shortly.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

Has the Home Secretary had an opportunity to speak to the new Justice Secretary about the implications for national security of not extending to inquests the closed material procedure, which, it is proposed, will be made available in a limited number of civil cases?

[Mrs May]

I can reassure the right hon. Gentleman that I have had a number of discussions with the Justice Secretary on a number of issues across our briefs. The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Government have decided not to include CMP in inquests. A great deal of concern was expressed when the idea of including CMP was proposed and the Government have come to our decision, which is included in the Justice and Security Bill.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 21st May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

As the Minister responsible for national security, will the Home Secretary provide us with her understanding of the comments made yesterday by the Justice Secretary, who told the BBC that he has revised his proposals for closed material proceedings in civil cases so that judges always have the final say on when they are used?

[Mrs May]

The right hon. Gentleman will see the Government’s proposals when the relevant Bill is published, but I am sure that with his wealth of knowledge and experience he will know that, on a number of issues such as control orders in the past and terrorism prevention and investigation measures now, the decision to hear such matters in closed proceedings, and the decision on whether they should go ahead, is initially taken by the Secretary of State and then put to the court for the court to agree.

Abu Qatada

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Tuesday 17th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

My hon. Friend has made a valid point about people’s confidence in the Court when they see that backlog. That backlog is precisely one of the issues that we have been addressing in discussions with other countries, and I expect the Brighton conference will consider how to deal with it. I hope that my hon. Friend will be able to welcome the outcome of that conference.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

It is potentially unhelpful, if not confusing, that the Special Immigration Appeals Commission is deliberating at the same time as the Home Secretary is making her statement. None the less, I, too, welcome the progress that she and her ministerial colleagues have made in their discussions with the Jordanian authorities. I have to put it to her, however, that if she had not been successful in her endeavours, Abu Qatada would not today be on a 22-hour curfew, but on a TPIM or terrorism prevention and investigation measure—a watered-down control order—with access to the internet and able to roam the streets of London. Would she be confident in that level of protection for the people of this country?

[Mrs May]

Yes, we are confident in the level of protection given by TPIMs—otherwise we not have introduced them. On the right hon. Gentleman’s first point about the timing, I am tempted to say that if SIAC had sat before I had made my statement, I would have received complaints from Labour Members that I should have come before the House before it had taken any decision.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 19th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point about Bedfordshire police. I commend them for the work they are doing. He has highlighted that it is possible to make savings in police budgets while ensuring that the front-line service is maintained and, in some cases, improved.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

Further to the question asked by my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) about Abu Qatada, we are now halfway through the three-month period set by Mr Justice Mitting for an agreement to be reached with Jordan. Does the Home Secretary expect to have met the deadline by the time we next meet for Home Office questions, or will Abu Qatada’s bail conditions have been revoked?

[Mrs May]

My reply to the right hon. Gentleman is the same as my reply to the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz). There have been two ministerial visits to Jordan; the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, my hon. Friend the Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (James Brokenshire) has made one, and I have also done so. Home Office officials have been there separately as well. We are having positive, constructive discussions with the Government of Jordan about Abu Qatada, but while those discussions are continuing and while there are still legal issues to look into, I will go no further than that.

UK Border Agency

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 20th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. The suspension of checks did start under the previous Government. As I told my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris), this Government have a proper immigration policy and intend to control immigration. We also need to ensure that UK Border Force is the law enforcement agency with control at our borders that we all want it to be.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

When the Home Secretary made her statement to the House on 7 November, there was some initial confusion about whether Manchester airport was included in the pilot. Can she now confirm how many passengers passed through Manchester airport without biometric or fingerprint checks during the period of the pilot that was authorised by Ministers?

[Mrs May]

I can confirm to the right hon. Gentleman that Manchester airport was indeed part of the pilot scheme, but one of the problems—as shown in the report by the chief inspector—is that some of the record-keeping at ports was not complete in relation to the operation of the pilot and the suspension of checks, and that records were kept on a different basis between different ports. While the chief inspector has put the figures into his report as far as he is able, it is not possible to get the complete picture of the operation of the pilot precisely because the records are incomplete.

Abu Qatada

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Tuesday 7th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department to update the House on the decision to release Abu Qatada on bail.

[The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May)]

Since December 2001, successive British Governments have sought to deport Abu Qatada to Jordan, his home country, because he poses a serious risk to our national security. Qatada has a long-standing association with al-Qaeda. British courts have found:

“His reach and the depth of his influence…is formidable…He provides a religious justification for…acts of violence and terror”.

In Jordan, he has been tried and found guilty in absentia of terrorism offences including conspiracy to cause explosions at western and Israeli targets and involvement in the bombings of the American school and the Jerusalem hotel in Amman in 1998.

The House of Lords agreed with the Government that Qatada can be deported to Jordan to face a retrial because of the diplomatic assurances negotiated by Britain and the Jordanian Government. That agreement ensures that individuals deported to Jordan will not be tortured upon their return. Despite the House of Lords agreement that Qatada should be deported, and despite accepting that he would not face mistreatment in Jordan, the European Court of Human Rights ruled last month against his deportation. It did so on the grounds that deportation would violate article 6 of the convention, the right to a fair trial, due to the risk that evidence obtained from the torture of others would be used against him. Hon. Members should be aware that that argument had already been considered by a British court and rejected.

I hardly need tell the House that the Government disagree vehemently with Strasbourg’s ruling. We believe that Abu Qatada should be deported. We are considering all the legal options available, including whether to refer the case to the Grand Chamber. As we do so, we will continue to negotiate with the Jordanians to see what assurances they can give us about the evidence used against Qatada in their courts. Following the Strasbourg ruling, Qatada’s lawyers appealed to the Special Immigration Appeals Commission for bail. We opposed that appeal vigorously, but yesterday it was granted, and bail will start within a week.

The bail conditions are among the most stringent imposed on anybody facing deportation from the UK, and reflect the conditions set out when Qatada was bailed in 2008. He will be under a 22-hour curfew. He will not be allowed to access the internet or any electronic communication devices. He will not be allowed to travel outside an approved boundary. Visitors will need to be approved, under very strict conditions. He will be subject to a specific condition preventing him from attending mosques and leading group prayer. If any of those conditions are breached, he will be re-arrested and we will seek his immediate re-detention. But however strict the bail conditions, I continue to believe that Qatada should remain behind bars.

It is simply not acceptable that after the Jordanians have guaranteed his treatment, after British courts have found that he is dangerous and after his removal has been approved by the highest courts in our land, we still cannot deport such a dangerous foreign national. We continue to consider the case for a British Bill of Rights, and the Prime Minister is leading the Government’s attempts to reform the European Court of Human Rights.

The right place for a terrorist is a prison cell. The right place for a foreign terrorist is a foreign prison cell, far away from Britain. That is why we will do everything that we can within the existing legal regime to deport Qatada, and we are doing everything that we can to reform that regime to avoid such cases in future.

[Paul Goggins]

I am grateful to the Home Secretary for her answer. She will understand, of course, that there is considerable concern throughout the House about yesterday’s decision. I appreciate, as do we all, that it places her in a difficult situation, but the public will want reassurance that the Government are doing everything possible to protect their safety.

First, can she offer any explanation why Mr Justice Mitting decided to bail Abu Qatada now, while an appeal to the European Court of Human Rights is still possible, rather than give notice that that would happen at some point in future if Ministers were ultimately unable to deport him? Will she say more about the discussions with the authorities in Jordan? Does she expect to receive assurances on the use of evidence, and if so, when? Given the urgency of the situation, will Ministers be directly involved in those discussions? Does she intend to make further representations to the Special Immigration Appeals Commission? Has Mr Justice Mitting indicated that he would be prepared to reconsider the three-month deadline for removing bail conditions if the Government received the necessary assurances and appealed against the ECHR ruling?

The public will be reassured by the fact that Home Office lawyers were successful in pressing SIAC to impose a 22-hour curfew on Abu Qatada. What arguments were advanced for that level of control, and how do they compare with the much-reduced arrangements that would be available if Abu Qatada were made subject to a terrorism prevention and investigation measure? Will the Home Secretary confirm that, under a TPIM, Abu Qatada would be entitled to a mobile phone and have access to the internet, that an overnight residence requirement would not exceed 16 hours, and that she would be unable to relocate him to another part of the country?

What additional costs will fall to the police and the Security Service as a result of the decision to grant Abu Qatada bail? Will the Home Secretary update the House on progress made since the Prime Minister’s recent speech in Strasbourg on the need to reshape the relationship between the ECHR and the UK’s own judicial system? Does she agree that it should be only in truly exceptional cases that a Supreme Court judgment can be challenged in the ECHR? Finally, does she agree that it is a good thing that indefinite detention without trial was ruled to be unlawful, but that the answer in Abu Qatada’s case is deportation, with assurances, to Jordan, not release into the community in Britain?

[Mrs May]

The right hon. Gentleman has raised several issues in his supplementary questions, some of which relate to the approach that Justice Mitting might take in certain circumstances, but obviously it is not for me to indicate what approach the judge would take. However, were assurances received from the Jordanian Government—we are working hard on that—obviously that would change the scenario and, by introducing a new factor, would enable the Government to take action that would, I think, change SIAC’s approach. If any case were to go before it again, though, it would be for it to determine.

The right hon. Gentleman referred to the work being done on the ECHR. As he will be aware, because of our chairmanship of the Council of Europe, we are in a position for six months to take action on this matter, and we are working actively with other countries with a similar interest in ensuring that the European Court acts as originally intended, which is as a Court considering the most serious issues and key points of human rights law, rather than as a body to which people automatically appeal once they have gone through national courts. That work is being actively led by my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Justice. Furthermore, as I mentioned, the Prime Minister has been to Strasbourg, spoken on these matters and explained our position.

The right hon. Gentleman mentioned TPIMs and bail, but of course they are two separate matters—one should not conflate the two. The Home Office made vigorous representations to SIAC arguing that Abu Qatada should not be released on bail, but that were it to happen, the most stringent conditions should be applied. As I said, these are among the most stringent conditions applied to anybody we are currently unable to deport from the UK.

As the right hon. Gentleman said at the end, it is absolutely right that in this country we do not have indefinite detention without trial. However, everyone on both sides of the House wants to ensure that we can deport those who represent a danger to the United Kingdom and whom we believe should be deported. That is why we are considering our options within the legal process, and why we are negotiating with Jordanians on further assurances in order to deport Abu Qatada. However, it is also why we are working to make the changes in the European Court to which the right hon. Gentleman referred, and looking at the whole issue of assurances with other countries, to ensure that we strengthen our ability to deport people who are a danger to us.

UK Border Force

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 7th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question. We will, indeed, be pressing ahead with the establishment of a border policing command inside the National Crime Agency. I am also pleased to be able to tell the House that the new chief executive of UKBA, Rob Whiteman, who has been in place for five weeks, has already done a lot of work in assessing what changes are required to ensure UKBA staff operate the maximum level of security.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

Can the Home Secretary confirm that all airports, including Manchester, were included in the pilot? If so, can she confirm whether those who run Manchester airport and the airlines that operate there were made aware of the pilot?

[Mrs May]

I do not believe that Manchester was included in the pilot, but I will, of course, check that I am right about that because—

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 7th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

Further to the Home Secretary’s reply about the Riot (Damages) Act 1886, if insurance companies are successful in pressing claims for the cost of business interruption, will those costs also be included in the financial settlement?

[Mrs May]

I do not think that business interruption is being looked at, but I am happy to write to the right hon. Gentleman and set out exactly what we are doing in relation to the Riot (Damages) Act 1886 and what criteria are being followed to ensure that police forces and others are paid the necessary sums.

Metropolitan Police Service

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 18th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

Indeed. My hon. Friend makes a very important point. As I said at the police bravery awards a couple of weeks ago, we have the finest police officers in the world—I believe that—but it is our duty to all those honourable, hard-working police officers and staff across the country to ensure that we get to the bottom of these allegations and sort this all out.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

The year 2012 was always going to be a very challenging one for the Metropolitan police, with the Olympic games, with convicted terrorists returning home from prison, and with relocated suspects being allowed to go back to their own homes. Given the events of the past 24 hours, will the Home Secretary now give urgent consideration to delaying the implementation of the new, weaker terrorism prevention measures in order to reduce risk and give the new commissioner time to prepare properly?

[Mrs May]

The right hon. Gentleman knows that the package that was agreed involves not just the TPIMs—terrorism prevention and investigation measures—but extra money, with tens of millions of pounds for the Security Service and the police to put in place extra surveillance so that they are able to mitigate any risk that has come about through the change in those orders. Yes, next year will be a challenging year. The Met police have themselves accepted and said publicly that it will be a very challenging time for them in having to ensure the security and safety of the Olympics. That has been worked on for several years—it is under the very competent leadership of Assistant Commissioner Chris Allison—and extremely good work has been done, but we continue, of course, to ensure that we are putting in place what is necessary to do what we all want to do, which is to ensure that everybody can enjoy a secure and successful games.

Police (Detention and Bail) Bill

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Thursday 7th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I thought I had made the position clear to the right hon. Lady. Those who were party to the initial legal proceedings were able to grant a stay, and Greater Manchester police were able to make a decision—which they did at a certain point in the timetable—on whether to apply for one.

If the right hon. Lady is trying to play party political games with the question of the application for a stay, she should consider the comments that have been made and the decision of the Supreme Court, which, as I have just said, suggests that there is considerable doubt not about the timetable for a stay, but whether the court even has the power to order one in this case. The right hon. Lady should think about that very carefully.

I think it important that the Home Affairs Committee has had an opportunity to scrutinise the Bill and also, fortuitously, an opportunity to ask me questions about it during the evidence session that I held with the Committee on Tuesday. I also note the support of leading legal figures such as Professor Michael Zander—who was mentioned earlier—and Liberty, which has said:

“Liberty supports the Government’s intention to amend the law as proposed. In our view the proposed reform is clarificatory and would do nothing more than return the law to the original intention of Parliament and the way in which it has been interpreted—by judges, prosecutors and defence lawyers—for the best part of 25 years.”

I could not agree more.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

I fully support the Bill, but may I take the Home Secretary back to the last session of Home Office questions and her surprisingly dismissive comments about the Joint Committee that had been considering her proposals for emergency legislation in relation to pre-charge detention? The Committee had described those proposals as unsatisfactory and unreliable.

In the light of the experience of the last few days, is the Home Secretary beginning to revisit her views on the role of emergency legislation in dealing with pressing and urgent issues? In particular, will she tell us what she would have done if all this had happened two or three weeks later, and the House had been in recess?

[Mrs May]

The premise of the right hon. Gentleman’s question is that I was dismissive of the Joint Committee’s views at Home Office questions, but I was not. Indeed, I have not been dismissive of its views because I have made it clear that we are accepting one of the points it raised on the emergency legislation, and I hardly think accepting one of its points can be described as being dismissive of its views.

The Bill seeks to restore the law on police detention to the position as it has been understood for the last 25 years. The Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 set out the rules governing detention and bail prior to charge.

[Paul Goggins]

rose—

[Mrs May]

Very well; I will give way again.

[Paul Goggins]

I am sorry to exasperate the Home Secretary, but I was rather hoping she would address the point I made at the end of my intervention: what would have happened if all this were taking place when we were in recess?

[Mrs May]

The right hon. Gentleman is trying to tempt me to debate hypothetical situations. It is right that we are introducing this legislation today, precisely so that it can be debated on the record and, we hope, receive Royal Assent before the House goes into recess. The right hon. Gentleman knows full well about the debates we have had on the emergency legislation for pre-charge detention and what would be applicable and possible for Parliament to do during a recess, and I am sure we will continue to have such debates. As I have said, I have accepted one of the Joint Committee’s points on this issue, and that can hardly be described as dismissing its views.

As I was saying, PACE set out the rules governing detention and bail prior to charge. It provides that once a person is arrested and brought to a police station, that person must not be detained for longer than 96 hours in total without being charged with an offence. Within the overall maximum permitted 96-hour period, continued detention must be authorised by a police officer of at least the rank of superintendent after the initial 24 hours, and by a magistrate after the initial 36 hours, with fresh warrants required at 36-hour intervals.

There are numerous other safeguards. For example, ongoing detention must be subject to periodic review, and an individual can challenge their detention at any time by bringing an action for habeas corpus in the High Court. The idea some have put forward that this judgment means the police should in some way just “work quicker” to gather evidence ignores the reality of policing and the necessity of the police being able to, for example, take forensics tests, and identify, contact and interview witnesses. The judgment effectively takes away police time in which to do such things.

The Bill seeks to reverse the effect of the High Court’s ruling, but it only seeks to reverse that. It amends PACE to make it explicit that in calculating any period—whether a time limit or a period of pre-charge detention—any periods spent on bail shall be disregarded. The Bill also amends PACE to make it clear that periods of police detention before and after a period of bail are to be treated as if they form a single continuous period. This is an important safeguard that the High Court judgment had overturned, and, again, it restores the position to what it has been understood to be for the past 25 years.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 9th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

Ministers have confirmed in parliamentary answers that in the period 2010-12, 45 individuals with terrorist convictions will be released back into the community. Can the Home Secretary assure the House that all relevant agencies will work closely together, that they will have the necessary resources to manage those offenders back into the community and that she and the Justice Secretary have a clear understanding that anyone in breach of their licence conditions will be returned to prison immediately?

[Mrs May]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. It is, of course, essential that the various agencies involved work together. I can assure him that they will be working together, as they have been. One of the developments of recent years, which is very welcome, is the way in which the Security Service and the police have worked together on counter-terrorism matters. They will continue to do so and are very conscious of the issues relating to the release of offenders who have completed their prison sentences.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 7th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

When asked to justify the cuts to policing in Greater Manchester, the Minister for Policing, and Criminal Justice said that cuts could be made to the back office. May I tell him that at least 1,600 police staff are being made redundant in Greater Manchester on top of the 1,377 uniformed officers? I ask him again how he can justify that.

[Mrs May]

We are looking to police forces first and foremost to take cuts in the back office, but that is not just about individuals; it is about improving procurement and collaborating with other forces to make savings. Significant sums of money—hundreds of millions of pounds—can be saved by better procurement, better IT services and collaboration between forces.

Sex Offenders Register

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Wednesday 16th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I thank my hon. Friend, who brings his experience in the law to that point. It is absolutely right that the police will deal with the matter and make the decision.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

I, too, welcome the rigorous approach that the Home Secretary is taking, and I say that as the Minister who took the Sexual Offences Act 2003 through Committee. Does she agree that given the highly secretive and manipulative behaviour of many sex offenders, it is highly unlikely that the offence of which they were convicted is the only crime that they have committed? Will she ensure in any review process that there is a clear onus on the offender to demonstrate beyond doubt that they are no longer a risk to the public?

[Mrs May]

I have a number of points to make to the right hon. Gentleman. Throughout the House, we all agree that Parliament needs to get the answer right for the sake of public protection. The police will be able to take other offences into account when they consider whether an individual should remain on the sex offenders register, and they will look as widely as possible at the behaviour of the individual in question, consulting as wide a number of agencies as possible to ensure that they make the best possible decision for the public.

Counter-terrorism Review

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Wednesday 26th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

On the indefinite detention of people, I can confirm to my hon. Friend that we will be introducing a two-year limit in the new measures. It will then be possible to put a new measure in place if it has been clear that somebody has been undertaking further terrorist activity, but that two-year limit is an important power that we will be ensuring is on the statute book.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

Further to the question asked by the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley), may I press the Home Secretary further on section 44? Whatever the problems in Great Britain, there is no question in my mind but that section 44 has saved lives in Northern Ireland. The power has been used proportionately by the Police Service of Northern Ireland, in tandem with the powers under the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007, to uncover and disrupt activity by terrorists. I will want to look, as others will, at the detailed proposals that she introduces, but she has described them as very tightly circumscribed. Is she not concerned that she may tie the hands of the PSNI?

[Mrs May]

The right hon. Gentleman’s description of the PSNI’s use of section 44 is accurate, because the PSNI used it very carefully—more carefully than police forces on the mainland. He rightly says that, as a result, terrorist attacks were disrupted and prevented. We have been very careful in discussions, and it has been of particular concern to ensure that the power that we are proposing will be usable by the PSNI and will enable it to continue to do what it needs to prevent terrorist attacks in Northern Ireland.

Public Order Policing

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 13th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

May I join the Home Secretary in what she said about the violence and the conduct of the police last week? Unlike some of my hon. Friends, I would not completely rule out consideration of the use of water cannon, although nobody should think of that as a panacea. It is worth recalling that the last time water cannon was used—in Belfast—it was in the face of sustained attack from blast bombs and live rounds. Does she agree that the commissioner’s priorities on days such as last Thursday must be good intelligence, effective communication and the earliest possible arrest of those who come looking for violence?

[Mrs May]

Indeed. The importance of intelligence and understanding what could happen is a significant element in the policing of such events. The use of water cannon has not traditionally been a part of the British model of policing. It has been used in Northern Ireland on occasions, but when there has been live fire, as the right hon. Gentleman said, which is a different sort of circumstance. It is important that we take operational advice from the police. Ultimately, such matters are operational police decisions, but, as I said, in England and Wales, it is a matter for the Home Office to determine whether using such measures is legal.

Aviation Security Incident

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 1st November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

My hon. Friend has raised an important point. I hope that I can reassure him that, alongside our work on the incident at the weekend and on reviewing our counter-terrorism legislation, we are also looking at the development of extremism and the process of radicalisation. It is important that we ensure that people do not get drawn into a radicalised agenda that leads to extremism, violence and terror. That work is ongoing.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

May I also thank the Home Secretary for her work over recent days, and for her statement this afternoon? In devising more effective ways of screening freight, what role do she and the Secretary of State for Transport envisage for the national aviation security committee, given the important role that the aviation industry plays in that committee’s work?

[Mrs May]

I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that the question of the most appropriate forum for the discussions and work that need to take place will be discussed with the industry later this week at a meeting chaired by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 6th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

When the Home Secretary cut the police budget for this year she included cuts to vital counter-terrorism work. Will she take the opportunity to create some common ground across the Chamber by sending out a strong message to terrorists that she will protect counter-terrorism funding in the budget for next year?

[Mrs May]

I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that this Government will ensure that we maintain our fight against terrorism. As he says, this is something on which views are shared across this Chamber; all Members of this House want to see us combat the threat of terrorism effectively. We will certainly do all that we can to do that.

Policing in the 21st Century

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 26th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising an important point. As their name suggests, the police and crime commissioners will have a responsibility that goes wider than simply the police force. We are looking at how they can work with, for example, community safety partnerships in local areas. However, we also envisage looking at the possibility of extending the remit of police and crime commissioners further in the criminal justice system. Indeed, my right hon. Friend the Minister for Police is looking at that with both the Home Office and the Ministry of Justice.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

May I press the Home Secretary for an answer on the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, which has established itself as a world leader in protecting children and finding perpetrators? All the evidence points to the need for an independent organisation focused on child protection. Why does she want to shoehorn CEOP into the national crime agency?

[Mrs May]

There is no suggestion of shoehorning anything. The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that CEOP has built up a significant reputation through the important work that it has done. I pay tribute to CEOP and Jim Gamble for everything that they have done in that area. However, we are not talking about shoehorning it into anything. What we are talking about is greater co-ordination across a range of activities under the national crime agency, and CEOP will be part of that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Monday 28th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

T8. A cut of 25% in police funding would be devastating for public confidence. What the Minister said before would require large reductions in the number of police officers, community support officers and civilian staff. Those reductions could come about only through large up-front payments in pension, redundancy and other costs. What assessment has the Minister made of the size of those costs, and how on earth will they be paid for?

[Mrs May]

The hon. Gentleman refers to front-line policing and to police doing the job that the public want them to do. We have answered a number of questions on that issue today, and the first thing is to ensure that our police officers are able to get out on the streets, doing the job that they want to do and people want them to do. I find it somewhat surprising that Labour Members continue to raise funding issues, when the people who are to blame for the funding situation in which we find ourselves are their Government.

Identity Documents Bill

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Paul Goggins

Wednesday 9th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I am coming on to some of the cost issues but, over the next four years, we will be saving £86 million by getting rid of the identity card scheme, with over £800 million being saved over the next 10 years.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

Will the Home Secretary give way?

[Mrs May]

No, I said that I was going to make some progress. I have been quite generous already in taking interventions.

Much of the Identity Cards Act 2006 will be undone but the Bill will re-enact certain provisions in the 2006 Act that do not relate solely to ID cards. Those provisions on offences and passport verification make available powers in relation to the detection and prevention of fraud, and the consular fees provision makes it possible to issue passports at subsidised rates. It will remain an offence to carry an identity document that a person knows or believes to be false or to hold a genuine document that relates to someone else, or that has been improperly obtained. Also it will remain illegal to possess equipment for falsifying documents. Under the Bill, ID cards will be invalidated. Holders will not be able to use them either to prove their identity or as a travel document in Europe. On the passing of the Bill, I will not issue any more cards. Following Royal Assent, cards will remain valid for just one more month.