Leaving the European Union

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Wednesday 22nd May 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right that we need to be able to move on. We can move on, while respecting the wish of the British people, by taking the Bill through and ensuring that we ratify and that we leave the European Union. If this House chooses not to take the Bill forward, it will face a choice of no deal or no Brexit; that is the choice that will be available to people in this House. I still believe that there is a majority in this House who want to deliver on the referendum result, but to do so with a deal. This is the Bill that will enable that to happen.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Change UK)]

It is clear that the House will reject the Prime Minister’s deal a fourth time, and she has indicated that she will then set out a timetable for her departure. She has also just said that there is no mandate here, or indeed in the country, to leave without a deal. Regarding that timetable, if a change in Prime Minister occurs near the end of October, leaving her successor no time to negotiate a further extension, will she request a further extension herself before the September recess, to stop us leaving with no deal?

[The Prime Minister]

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman knows my answer to that: if he really wants to ensure that we do not leave the European Union without a deal, the best way is to agree a deal, and that is the Bill.

European Council

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Thursday 11th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right that there are a number of other issues facing the European Union, including its relationship with China. He will be aware of the benefits that the United Kingdom already has from investment from, and interaction of trade with, China. We will, of course, want to enhance that for the future. As a member of the European Union during this extension, we will continue to participate and to operate with that duty of sincere co-operation and fulfil all our rights and obligations.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Ind)]

The Prime Minister has wasted most of the past two years negotiating Brexit with her own divided party. What she actually needs to do is to rub out her red lines to bring this House and our country together. The problem is that she always puts her party before country. Will she now commit to stop flogging her dead horse of a deal, face down the hardliners in her own party and give serious consideration to a people’s vote, which her own Chancellor has said is a perfectly credible proposition?

[The Prime Minister]

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer I gave earlier.

European Council

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Monday 25th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

That is a statement that I have made not just today, but previously. I have been very clear that this House may very well try to ensure that we do not leave without a deal, but that the question to Members—if they wish to do that—is, what do they then want to do? Do they want to leave with a deal, or do some Members of this House not want to leave at all? We need to leave.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Ind)]

This is a parliamentary democracy and it is quite clear that this Parliament will not approve the Prime Minister’s deal. If, through an indicative vote process, a majority forms behind an alternative way forward and she does not then implement it, will not any remaining shred of authority or credibility she has with our EU partners completely disappear? How on earth could she remain in office in those circumstances?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman heard the response I gave earlier in relation to the Government’s position on indicative votes. We will engage constructively with those votes. It is possible that those votes will decide contradictory things; it is possible that they will not decide anything at all. We will engage constructively.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Monday 21st January 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney General responded to the issue of the House of Lords report in last week’s debate. He was very clear that the House of Lords report had looked at a particular aspect of law but had itself recognised there might be obligations under other aspects of international law. The advice is clear that there would be obligations on us to pay in a no-deal situation, and I believe that we should be a country that respects its legal obligations.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

I listened carefully to what the Prime Minister said about social cohesion and division in our country. We all worry about the far right and the threat it poses to our country, and history shows that a resurgence of the far right usually follows an economic depression, which is why avoiding no deal at all costs is essential. Does she not agree in any event that it would be wholly wrong to allow any group in society to threaten and intimidate us into not following our democratic processes and into not having votes, that this would clearly be unacceptable and that anyone engaging in such threats, violence and intimidation should feel the strong arm of the law come down on them?

[The Prime Minister]

There is an important issue relating to some of the behaviour that we have seen. Members of this House have been victims of it, but others also have been on the receiving end of aggressive behaviour because they appear to hold a different view from those held by other people. It is important that we are able to have our debates on these issues—not just in the House, but in public—with dignity and respect. Yes, people will want to put their positions passionately, but there must be respect for the right of others to hold a different view, and to hold that view equally passionately. However, I also believe it is important, when the House has given a decision to the British people in a referendum, that we deliver on that.

European Council

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Monday 17th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend. What he has said reflects comments from around the country: people say or write to me that they want us to get on with it, to deliver and then to be able—as a Government and as a Parliament—to get on with addressing the domestic issues that matter to them day to day.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

Let us be clear: it is the long list of broken promises of leave campaigners whom the Prime Minister appointed to her Government that has done irreparable damage to the integrity of our politics. She has made three statements in the House, and on each occasion the House has made clear that it will not vote for her plan, but she continues to refuse to listen. May I ask her a specific question? She has said that no deal is not something that she would countenance. Let us suppose that we reach the March 2019 European Council and there is no consensus in the House on a route forward. Will she now commit herself to request an extension of article 50 at that European Council to stop no deal from happening?

[The Prime Minister]

I have indicated my approach in relation to the extension of article 50.

Exiting the European Union

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Monday 10th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, the terms of that further extension of the transition period/implementation period, were it to be the way forward, would have to be negotiated. There would be an expectation on the part of the EU for a sum of money, and we would consider it necessary for that to be fair and proportionate. Of course, this is one of the differences between the backstop as it appears in the withdrawal agreement and the extension of the transition period, in that, in the backstop, no financial obligation is required from the United Kingdom.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister says that a people’s vote would not reflect the will of the people and that it would be divisive, but we do not know what the will of the people is in 2018 and we are already a divided country. Nothing would divide us more or fuel the far right more than a deteriorating economy. Is it not the case that, notwithstanding any tweak that she makes to her backstop, her withdrawal agreement will still leave us poorer, relative to the deal that we have now?

[The Prime Minister]

The vote took place in 2016 and people voted to leave the European Union. I believe that it is our duty to deliver on that.

Progress on EU Negotiations

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Thursday 22nd November 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am sure that my right hon. Friend will recall the discussions we had earlier in the year when we were agreeing the temporary customs arrangement as our proposal for the basis on which we would ensure that we guaranteed the commitment for the people of Northern Ireland, and, indeed, obviously elements of that have been reflected in what we see in the withdrawal agreement. There are various arrangements that we can put in place, as I have said to others who have questioned me so far in this statement in relation to the backstop. I say to my right hon. Friend that the future relationship that we have set out in the political declaration ends free movement, ends sending vast sums of money to the European Union every year, and ends the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice here in the United Kingdom, and it enables us to hold an independent trade policy and to negotiate trade deals around the whole of the world. I know that my right hon. Friend has in the past expressed his desire to have all those elements available to the United Kingdom, and that is what this deal delivers.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

As has been said, this is a declaration of aspiration and a charter for years of uncertainty. It is not the comprehensive free trade deal that the Prime Minister promised we would have before exit day in her Lancaster House speech. Having broken that promise, can she now guarantee that that comprehensive free trade deal will be finalised by the end of the transition period, because so far this gives no certainty whatsoever to our businesses?

[The Prime Minister]

On the contrary, if the hon. Gentleman looks at the comments that have been made by business in relation to the declaration—that were made, in fact, in relation to the outline political declaration last week—he will see that organisations such as the Federation of Small Businesses are very clear about the certainty that is provided for businesses looking into the future. When he looks through the political declaration and, indeed, through the withdrawal agreement, he will also see the firm commitment on both sides to ensuring that we work to put in place that legal text. Yes, it is the case that we cannot have the legal text on the future agreement until we have left the European Union, and one of the elements towards the end of the political declaration, as the hon. Gentleman will have seen, sets out the commitments in relation to working on that for the future. I say to the hon. Gentleman that what is important is that we have here a political declaration that is fuller than the outline that we published last week and that sets out very clearly a deal for the UK that is good for the United Kingdom and good for jobs.

EU Exit Negotiations

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Thursday 15th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Yes, I am very happy to confirm that for my hon. Friend. She refers to the position of the EU negotiators; in fact, I think that many feel that they have been looking more at the future relationship than they had expected. We will ensure that more detail is available for Members of this House before the meaningful vote.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister has said that the country faces three choices: no Brexit; any agreement that she is able to finalise with the EU and get through this House; and no deal. She has also just said that we will get an economic analysis—an impact assessment. Will she undertake to ensure that that impact assessment includes a comparison of the current deal we have—no Brexit—and the one that she proposes to put to a meaningful vote in this House? To withhold that from the House would be unacceptable.

[The Prime Minister]

We will ensure, in advance of the time at which people take their decision in relation to the meaningful vote, that proper analysis is available to enable people to make a judgment between the deal that is being proposed and alternative arrangements.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Wednesday 31st October 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am certainly happy to look at the issue that my hon. Friend has raised. She refers to what I assume is physical violence or attacks that teachers have been under. I have also seen cases where teachers have come under considerable, I would say, harassment and bullying on social media as well, so I think this is an issue that we do need to look at.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

Black Cultural Archives, based in Lambeth—I am a patron of it—is the only national heritage centre dedicated to preserving and celebrating the histories of black people in this country. However, unlike other national institutions such as the National Gallery or the British Museum, which get over 40% of their funding from central Government, BCA currently receives none and is under threat of closure. The Prime Minister talked about the race disparity audit. Can I ask her to explain the differential treatment of BCA and in this Windrush year, of all years, to right this wrong and provide it with the funding that it desperately needs?

[The Prime Minister]

I say to the hon. Gentleman that a difference of approach is taken between those museums that are considered to be national museums and those that have developed in other circumstances. I recognise what he is saying about the importance of this particular organisation and the relevance of what it is commemorating and reflecting, and I will ask a Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Minister to look at the issue that he has raised.

October EU Council

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Monday 22nd October 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend. At the very beginning of this process, I said that there would always be comments and statements outside the negotiations. What is important is that I and the Government keep our focus on the negotiations and on getting that good deal.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

Let us be clear what the Prime Minister promised in her Lancaster House speech last year. She promised:

“to have reached an agreement about our future partnership by the time the two year Article 50 process has concluded”—

not during the transition period or by the end of it. Will she confirm that she will be breaking that promise, that we will not have the detail of a legally binding trade agreement in place before we leave and that she is proposing that we pay a divorce bill of more than £40 billion without getting that trade deal in return?

[The Prime Minister]

I think there is a misunderstanding about the process that I thought I had explained in response to my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg). We cannot finalise and sign the legal text of our future relationship and trade partnership with the EU until we have left the EU, but we can know what that future relationship will be, and that is exactly what we are negotiating and will be part of the final deal.

Leaving the EU

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Monday 9th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

No. The position that my hon. Friend sets out is not the position for the future. I have been very clear that Parliament will be able to take these decisions about rules in the future. The reality and practicality of Brexit—somebody said earlier that I am dealing not with the theory, but with the reality and practicality of Brexit—is that our businesses which want to export to the European Union will continue to operate to the European Union’s rulebook in industrial goods, just as when we sign trade deals with other parts of the world, we will need to ensure that both sides can operate to the rules that are appropriate there. Businesses will continue to apply these rules regardless. By operating in this way, we are able to ensure that frictionless border between the UK and the EU, which is important to delivering on our commitments for Northern Ireland while maintaining the constitutional integrity of the United Kingdom, and to ensuring that we maintain the jobs that rely on the integrated supply chains that have grown up over decades.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister has proposed a free trade area for goods, but the fact is that our services sector has been left out and left behind by this Government. TechUK, which employs more than 700,000 workers in the technology sector, has said that a deal such as the one that she has proposed will reduce access to EU markets, will be confusing for consumers, and will add to complexity for business. Why is she ignoring these services, which make up most of the British economy?

[The Prime Minister]

This is not about ignoring services’ businesses, but about seeing that that sector is one of the areas where we have great opportunities for trade deals around the rest of the world. It is also about recognising the importance and the significance of financial services in the City of London and the importance of ensuring that we can have not just regulatory co-operation, but the freedom to be flexible in these areas.

June European Council

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Monday 2nd July 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think that the overwhelming view of the British public is that they took a vote, they want the Government to deliver on it, and they want us to get on with delivering on it. That is exactly what we are doing.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

Section 10 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 very clearly makes it unlawful for Ministers to do anything that would lead to any form of physical customs border on the island of Ireland. The Solicitor General has confirmed that to exit with no deal and to trade under World Trade Organisation rules would necessitate such a border. Will the Prime Minister therefore specifically confirm the following? She has said that no deal would be better than a bad deal, but no deal would actually be unlawful under the Act.

European Council

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Monday 18th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The Government’s focus will clearly be on ensuring that we can negotiate that deep and special partnership for the future. That is not just in our interests; it is in the interests of the EU and the EU27 as well. That is why I am optimistic and ambitious about the trade deal that we can achieve.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

Last year, the Prime Minister wrote to me giving the same general assurance on workers’ rights that she just gave to the Leader of the Opposition. She did not actually answer his specific question today, however, so I ask her again: given that her Cabinet colleagues are now agitating for some of those rights to be done away with, will she guarantee that none of the working time regulations—importantly, the 48-hour working week—will be done away with by her Government after we leave the European Union?

[The Prime Minister]

We are bringing those rights into UK law though the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill. I have said that we will maintain, and indeed enhance, workers’ rights.

Brexit Negotiations

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Monday 11th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

That is the whole point. Once we are outside the European Union, we will be able to determine our regulations and where we wish to diverge from the regulations of the European Union. As I said in my response to my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), in any trade agreement there is an agreement about the rules, regulations and standards on which both sides will operate, but also an agreement about what happens when one side wants to diverge from them. The important point is that this Parliament will be the body deciding those rules and regulations.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

Senior civil servants across Whitehall have reportedly been instructed from here on not to commit to writing any evaluation they make of the impact of Brexit on their industry sectors. Is that true? If so, why the cover-up?

European Council

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Monday 23rd October 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend, with his many years of wisdom, is right to urge caution on me in that regard. He is absolutely right that the Labour party has tried to thwart the very measure that would enable us to put in place the decision taken by the British people.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

As we have heard this afternoon, many Conservative Members claim that leaving with no deal and trading on WTO terms will be relatively straightforward. But if we are in a no deal scenario, we will still need the EU, in its capacity as a member of the WTO, to agree to the new terms of our independent membership of the WTO. Can the Prime Minister guarantee that if there is no deal with the EU, she will at least get its agreement to the new terms of our independent membership of the WTO?

[The Prime Minister]

The whole question of our membership of the WTO, and the independent role that we will take once we are outside the European Union, is one on which the Department for International Trade is already working. It is looking ahead, with partners such as the European Union, to the position that we are going to take.

UK Plans for Leaving the EU

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Monday 9th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I echo the comments that my right hon. Friend has made. That is exactly what we found in our dealings with the American Government. We have a working group on issues relating to trade working with the American Government. The exact arrangements during the implementation period will be a matter for the negotiations, but we are clear that during the implementation period it should be possible for us to continue to negotiate trade agreements. We would not enter into anything that was contrary to the agreement we had come to with the European Union.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister has been asked several times about implementation of transition and has not made any sense at all in the answers she has given. She has said today that she foresees a framework for transition of around two years along the existing structure of EU rules and regulations. The existing structure has the single market and customs union at its heart. How can what she is proposing for her implementation period be anything other than continued membership of the customs union and the single market, which our companies require?

[The Prime Minister]

I thought that I had explained this in response to one of the hon. Gentleman’s hon. Friends. As of 29 March 2019, we leave the European Union. That means we leave full membership of the customs union and full membership of the single market. We will, as part of that—this is our proposal to the EU—have negotiated an implementation period to take us in a smooth and orderly process, so that the practical changes can be made towards the end agreement with the European Union. How long that needs to last will depend significantly on the nature of that agreement and how different it is from the current arrangements, but during that period what we are proposing is that it is in the interests of individuals and businesses on all sides to be able to continue to operate on the same basis as they do today. That would be part of the withdrawal agreement that we propose to negotiate with the European Union, so that negotiation would be about the basis on which we operate during the implementation period.

European Council

Debate between Baroness May of Maidenhead and Chuka Umunna

Monday 26th June 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

As I said in my statement, the responses received from individual leaders in the European Union were positive to the proposals that we were putting forward. I can cite the Prime Minister of Poland’s positive response to what was said, for example. I think my hon. Friend makes an interesting point.

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)]

To follow the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley), the Prime Minister’s new governing partner, the Democratic Unionist Party, said in its manifesto that it would seek to deliver a “frictionless border” with the Republic of Ireland and a

“comprehensive free trade and customs agreement with the European Union”.

Is it not the case that neither of those objectives can be secured if we leave the European Union without a deal?

[The Prime Minister]

I have to say to the hon. Gentleman that the desires to bring about a frictionless border between Northern Ireland and Ireland and to have a comprehensive free trade deal are exactly what the Government are pursuing. That is what was said in my Lancaster House speech, and we are doing it. I met the incoming Taoiseach last week and discussed how we can work with the Irish Government to ensure that we can deliver just that.