Draft International Development Association (Seventeenth Replenishment: Additional Payments) Order 2016

Debate between Seema Malhotra and Rory Stewart

Monday 12th September 2016 General Committees

[Rory Stewart]

How foolish of me to think that there were only three questions, given that I have just been hit by five very good additional questions. I thank the Scottish National party and the whole Committee for their support for this order and for moving ahead with this important work in international development.

With your permission, Mr Bone, I will take each of the five questions in turn. The shadow Minister asked the very important question of why we are making a loan, because this actually is not a grant, but a loan. IDA itself is a loan-making body that makes a range of concessional loans and grants. We feel it is right, given that the association will in turn be lending this money and receiving the principal back, that the British taxpayer should also be able to lend this money and receive the principal back in 20 years’ time. That will not affect the results. Results will still be achieved by the loan, but the principal will come back to us.

My hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet asked how many of the loans are written off. We often make concessional loans to very fragile countries, and some of them do not come right. That is why we have a combination of loans and grants. We would expect our loans to be repaid, but this £350 million that we are putting in is within the context of a total package of about £2 billion of UK support, of which the overwhelming majority is in the form of grants.

One reason why this happens is that we encourage IDA to go into areas where the private sector will not wish to invest, so we expect that a certain number of the loans will not come good, but that relates to the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Tonbridge and Malling. We have to be hugely careful about fraud because the sums that we are talking about are enormous. The state capacity in some of the countries in which we operate is limited, and there are also other problems, such as security problems, which can make it quite difficult for our staff to get out on the ground and directly see projects.

[Seema Malhotra]

The Minister is responding to an important point. May I add to the list of concerns those states where there might be corruption, human rights abuses or dictatorships that could be supported by our funding? We need to be mindful of how we handle such difficult situations.

[Rory Stewart]

The questions asked by the hon. Lady and my hon. Friend the Member for Tonbridge and Malling are central to this subject. This is, in the end, UK taxpayers’ money that comes from hard-working people. Those people believe in trying to deal with humanitarian crises and in helping the world’s poorest people, but they have an absolute right to expect that their hard-won money is being used in the right way.

We have a series of different mechanisms in place to try to deal with that. A multilateral aid review happens every three years and the independent commission reports directly to Parliament. We have our own internal audit team, and we also do annual reviews. It is possible to look at the development tracker on our website and to see our annual review, published in April, specifically of the IDA programme. We gave the programme an alpha-plus in the previous review, but note three particular areas of gender, climate change and the issue of fragile and conflict states regarding which we think it could be better. One reason why we work so closely with and are one of the larger contributors to the World Bank is that it has a very good track record—better than that of almost anyone else—in trying to address issues of corruption, transparency and predictability in the management of its financial processes.