Fluorinated Greenhouse Gases (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 24th October 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his overview of the regulations before us. As has been stated, this is an unusually straightforward statutory instrument as it seeks solely to correct a date error in a piece of retained EU law relating to fluorinated greenhouse gases. Therefore, I plan to keep my contribution short.

However, to reiterate the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, it is clear that the technical error, as outlined in Paragraph 6.6 of the Explanatory Memorandum, which changed the baseline date for the annual quota system from 2015 to 2021, would have a detrimental impact on the businesses affected and make compliance challenging. It is also contrary to the policy intent. However, it is concerning that the SI is before us only today, when the deadline for recalculating the underlying reference values is 31 October. In other words, the dataset needs to be calculated next week, yet His Majesty’s Government have put this before us only seven days before the deadline. When was the error identified? Could the department have brought forward the instrument earlier to give assurance and clarity to business? Can the Minister also confirm that this is the last example of this error, and that we should not expect to see any more SIs of a similar nature in the coming weeks?

While I have the Minister’s attention, Paragraph 14.1 of the EM notes that a wider review of the F-gas regulation is under way. Can he update your Lordships’ House on the timelines for the review? I look forward to hearing from the Minister.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their interest in this matter and their contributions to the debate. I reiterate that the amendment made by this instrument relates to the correction of a technical error in the F-gas regulation. The amendment will meet the original intended objective of retaining the substance and phasedown set out in the EU regulation when that regulation was domesticated following our EU exit. This correction will ensure that the Environment Agency recalculates the reference values correctly by the statutory deadline date of 31 October, as noble Lords have pointed out.

On why this has been laid so close to the 31 October deadline, the instrument uses the power in Section 14(2) of the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Act 2023. The Act received Royal Assent only on 29 June, meaning that there was no time to lay the instrument until now.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, asked how this technical issue arose. The error occurred when we implemented the amending legislation to retain the EU regulation in UK law during the EU exit. Consequently, the error was identified after that period had passed. We did not consult, although we have consulted industry informally and we are responding to what is demanded by these companies. Devolved Administrations were also engaged throughout the development of this instrument and agreement between officials on this provision has been reached. Ministerial consent has been provided by Wales and Scotland. Wider consultation was not deemed necessary, as the amendments introduced by this instrument relate to technical operability and there is no change in related existing policy.

A full impact assessment has not been prepared for this instrument because there is no impact as a result of its implementation. The instrument corrects a technical error that occurred when direct EU legislation was retained and amended as part of EU exit. The changes that it makes will meet the objective of retaining the substance and phasedown pace of the EU F-gas regulation and there is no change in the related existing policy. I think that noble Lords’ points have been covered and I commend the instrument.

Windsor Framework (Retail Movement Scheme) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 18th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank your Lordships’ House for a truly comprehensive debate. Given the detail of the contributions and that these issues have been considered in depth during this debate and during the consideration of an associated statutory instrument prior to the Conference Recess, I will keep my contribution short.

We consider this legislation to be vital to the implementation of the Windsor Framework and, as we have consistently stated, we support a negotiated outcome with the EU. While the Labour Party does not believe that the Windsor Framework is perfect, it is a substantial improvement on what came before. Although it may be to the disappointment of some, the core tenets of the Windsor Framework are now in operation. While this regret Motion would not undermine it in legislative terms, supporting it—whether at this Dispatch Box or in the Division Lobbies should the noble Lord, Lord Dodds of Duncairn, decide to test the opinion of the House—would suggest that we believe that there is a viable alternative. We are unable to say that and therefore cannot support him.

For the avoidance of doubt, this is not a wholehearted endorsement of what the Government have achieved because important gaps remain, as we have heard. However, it reflects our belief that a negotiated outcome is preferable to threats or unilateral action and that once a deal is translated into an instrument of international law, it must be respected and upheld. Successive Conservative Governments have, at times, fallen short in this regard. We welcome that, on this occasion, Ministers are doing things by the book.

As I have said, the Windsor Framework is not a comprehensive framework and not every issue with the protocol has been fully resolved. There are several important changes to GB-Northern Ireland trade which strengthen the internal market, but there is still work to do. The Motion tabled by the noble Lord cites concerns around the speed of implementation and lack of public consultation. While we accept the public interest in, and general business support for, moving swiftly, I hope that he remembers my previous comments in relation to the consultation: stakeholders may have been able to make submissions to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, but that is no substitute for a more formal process.

I have a few questions for the Minister. He will know that in recent days his noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe provided a written update on the switch-on of the Windsor Framework arrangements. Can the noble Lord the Minister elaborate on the recent changes and confirm how businesses can provide feedback on their operation? We have just returned from the Conference Recess. Many of us in your Lordships’ House would have welcomed the comments from Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, the leader of the DUP, which suggested that progress was being made in discussions around the Windsor Framework and the all-important restoration of the Northern Ireland Assembly and Executive—a sentiment he also alluded to in the other place today. On that note, can the Minister provide any update to the House on the DUP’s proposal for the establishment of an east-west council to deal with issues relating to GB-Northern Ireland trade?

It is imperative for all of us to make this work. While we support the negotiated settlement reached earlier this year and hope that it will lead to a marked improvement in the experiences of Northern Ireland businesses and consumers, I sincerely hope that moving forward, whether on the Windsor Framework or other issues, His Majesty’s Government make a renewed effort to work with and listen to parties and communities in Northern Ireland, rather than imposing policy and legislation on them. I look forward to hearing from the Minister.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Dodds of Duncairn, for tabling this Motion, and all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate today. I pay great tribute to him and his colleagues. I entirely understand the passion that underlies their concerns about this. All of us who have had knowledge and understanding of the situation in Northern Ireland over a great many decades appreciate the underlying emotions that exist on issues relating to this. Trade is so important to every person in Northern Ireland for all of us who care about the union.

We have before us two key pieces of legislation, the Windsor Framework (Retail Movement Scheme) Regulations 2023 and the Windsor Framework (Plant Health) Regulations 2023. Both play a pivotal role in the implementation of the Windsor Framework. I am pleased to announce that, as the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson, has said, the schemes are now live and trade between Great Britain and Northern Ireland is once again on a more stable and long-term footing. It is our fervent wish to successfully restore the smooth flow of trade within the UK internal market and safeguard Northern Ireland’s place in the union.

First, I would like to provide some background on the retail movement scheme regulations. The scheme establishes a robust and sustainable legal framework for the movement of pre-packaged retail agri-food goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. This framework offers traders a unique set of arrangements, reducing barriers to trade by facilitating the movement of consignments based on a single certificate, compared with hundreds of vet-signed certificates for individual products needed under the old protocol. One of the key benefits secured by this scheme is the disapplication of over 60 pieces of EU legislation for goods moving from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, ensuring a consistent approach across the entire United Kingdom. This means that goods which meet British public health, marketing and organics standards will be able to move to Northern Ireland.

We have a long-standing commitment to ensure that Northern Ireland’s businesses have unfettered access to their most important market, Great Britain. The Northern Ireland protocol guaranteed unfettered access for Northern Ireland’s businesses to the GB market. This was legislated for in the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 and is reflected in the border target operating model. Furthermore, it has been raised in this debate that the instruments are contrary to the objectives of the Northern Ireland protocol listed in Article 1(2) of the Windsor Framework. In response to that assertion, I assure noble Lords that the Windsor Framework restores the smooth flow of trade within the UK internal market by removing the unnecessary burdens that have disrupted east-west trade. We are now able to achieve the long-standing UK government objective of restoring the smooth flow of trade within the UK internal market by pursuing a green lane for the movement of goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, supporting Northern Ireland’s place in the UK. We are confident that the Windsor Framework upholds our objectives to ensure that Northern Ireland’s place in the union is protected. Specifically, the framework allows for goods which meet British standards to be available in all parts of the UK, ensuring that consumers in Northern Ireland have access to the same goods as those elsewhere in the UK.

The plant health regulations pave the way for the smooth movement of plants and seeds for planting, seed potatoes and used agricultural and forestry machinery and vehicles between Great Britain and Northern Ireland when applying a Northern Ireland plant health label. The Northern Ireland plant health label scheme aligns closely with the current UK plant passport regime, making it familiar and accessible to all businesses engaged in the commercial movement of plants within Great Britain. This label will replace the need for plants and seeds for planting to be accompanied by a phytosanitary certificate, significantly reducing costs. Instead of paying £150 per movement into Northern Ireland, growers and businesses can now pay approximately £120 annually to be part of this scheme, which is the same as the cost for the UK plant passport regime.

Importantly, these regulations will also allow previously banned seed potatoes to be once again available in Northern Ireland from other parts of the UK while remaining prohibited in the Republic of Ireland. This will have a significant impact on trade between Scotland and Northern Ireland, with an estimated 2,500 tonnes of seed potatoes expected to move from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. The EU’s risk assessment process for the movement of so-called high-risk trees, a point raised by my noble friend Lady Lawlor, is being expedited. Once approved, they will move from Great Britain to Northern Ireland with the Northern Ireland plant health label. We prioritised removing bans on the movement of plants and trees of greatest importance to industry—seed potatoes and the 11 most important British native and other commonly grown trees. I assure my noble friend that hawthorn is under that definition.

The Windsor Framework has also removed the Irish Sea border for goods remaining in the UK, providing a firm legal foundation for trade and allowing everyday goods to move efficiently between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It does so while protecting biosecurity on the island of Ireland, which has been treated as a single epidemiological unit for decades. It also safeguards Northern Ireland’s privileged access to the EU single market, which has been a clear demand from businesses to protect livelihoods. These regulations play a critical role in facilitating the seamless movement of goods between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reducing trade barriers, and promoting a more efficient and cost-effective trading environment. They are essential components of the Windsor Framework; I hope therefore I can convince all noble Lords to support their implementation, as we debated before the Summer Recess.

Windsor Framework (Enforcement etc.) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 19th September 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, this has been a genuinely fascinating debate and, as ever, shows the complex nature of every issue when we look to our post-Brexit environment. I thank the Minister for his overview of this statutory instrument and for the correspondence I received from his fellow Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe.

This legislation is vital to the implementation of the Windsor Framework and, as His Majesty’s Opposition made clear in the other place, we support a negotiated outcome with the European Union. For the avoidance of doubt, while the Labour Party does not believe that the Windsor Framework is perfect, we do believe it is a substantial improvement on what came before.

His Majesty’s Opposition supported this instrument when a vote was called in the Commons. Again, this was not a wholehearted endorsement of what the Government have achieved—as we have heard today, important gaps remain—but a reflection of our belief that these issues must be resolved through negotiation rather than threats or unilateral action.

This is why I am so grateful to members of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, including my noble friend Lady Ritchie, for their reflections on the recent set of Windsor Framework SIs, and for consistently considering the views of colleagues with divergent opinions. As well as key stakeholders, different organisations and political parties may reach varying conclusions on the Windsor Framework, but we should all be able to feed these into the process and have our views heard.

The Windsor Framework was announced in February and many of the changes within it will be operational in just a couple of weeks, so it is concerning that these instruments have been brought forward for consideration only in this short September sitting. I fear that this is something of a pattern, not just in relation to the Windsor Framework but more generally in the tabling of SIs. Can the Minister advise on why this process has been so delayed in both Houses?

In the debate in another place, my right honourable friend and colleague Hilary Benn asked a number of questions and Minister Spencer committed to following up on a number of points in writing. Does the Minister have a copy of this correspondence, and does he wish to read any of its contents into the record? If it has not yet been sent, can participants in this debate be included in the correspondence?

Northern Irish consumers will soon enjoy access to a greater number of goods than was possible under the old protocol. The lifting of restrictions on seed potatoes and certain pre-packed meat products is especially welcome as that is important for farmers and producers on both sides of the Irish Sea. But it is important to note that restrictions remain on some items, including a number of shrubs and trees, many of which are still under review, as raised by the noble Lord, Lord Dodds. Can the Minister update us on the timing of the review and when we can expect additional trees and shrubs to be added to the green lane?

This instrument deals with enforcement powers, aiming to provide what paragraph 7.1 of the Explanatory Memorandum describes as

“the pragmatic and proportionate enforcement of GB public health, marketing and organics standards in NI for goods moved”

under the new schemes. His Majesty’s Government insist that there will be

“no impact on traders who abide by the terms and conditions and regulations that govern the scheme”.

Does the Minister really endorse that statement? There may be no enforcement impact, but there is a practical impact on businesses, which have to adjust to new procedures as well as covering new and different costs.

Also, as the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee notes and as my noble friend Lady Ritchie raised, there has been no formal consultation on these measures, although there has been informal engagement with a range of stakeholders. Given the lack of formal consultation prior to the changes, can the Minister confirm whether there will be any post-implementation review? If so, when? How will that process work?

It is imperative for us all to make this work. While we support the negotiated settlement reached earlier this year and hope it will lead to a marked improvement in the experiences of Northern Ireland businesses and consumers, I sincerely hope that, moving forward, whether on the Windsor Framework or other issues, His Majesty’s Government will make a renewed effort to work with parties and communities in Northern Ireland, rather than imposing policy on them. I look forward to hearing from the Minister.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. A number of questions have been asked; I will endeavour to answer them all. I will start by answering the point that the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson, just raised. We want power-sharing to restart and decisions about the lives of people and businesses in Northern Ireland to be taken by people in Northern Ireland. We really do want to see that happen as soon as possible, of course.

I will tackle the points more or less as they were raised, but I apologise if I mix them all up. The Windsor Framework achieves a long-standing UK government objective to restore the smooth flow of trade within the UK internal market by pursuing a green lane for the movement of goods from GB to Northern Ireland, supporting Northern Ireland’s place in the UK. It restores the smooth flow of trade within the UK internal market by removing the unnecessary burdens that have disrupted east-west trade. At the same time, the Windsor Framework recognises the need to protect the biosecurity of the island of Ireland, which, as the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, pointed out, has been treated as a single epidemiological unit for decades. It is the case that some checks, such as those on live animals, were required from GB to Northern Ireland prior to EU exit and before the old Northern Ireland protocol was implemented to protect the integrity of this single epidemiological unit. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Morrow, that this is about achieving unfettered access for Northern Ireland to Great Britain in trade terms, but this SI is about Great Britain to Northern Ireland.

A number of noble Lords asked about the practical consequences, so let us discuss what would happen if this SI were not taking place or if it were not approved by Parliament. The consequences would be the UK failing to comply with its legal duties and international obligations under the Windsor Framework. This statutory instrument forms part of the Defra Windsor Framework legislation that must be in force by 1 October 2023. It is therefore also required to establish, maintain and support the arrangements agreed under the Windsor Framework.

Specifically, this SI in Defra’s legislative package is required to enable the necessary enforcement of GB standards for goods moving under the Northern Ireland retail movement scheme when placed on the market in Northern Ireland. To protect public health and ensure food safety in Northern Ireland, authorities in Northern Ireland will be able to check and remove non-compliant goods from sale. That will ensure that consumers in Northern Ireland are protected by the same high standards as those in Great Britain. The risk of not proceeding would be insufficient public health and food safety protections for consumers in Northern Ireland, meaning that Northern Ireland consumers were less well protected than those elsewhere in the United Kingdom, severely undermining consumer confidence in the Northern Ireland food system. That risk is significant, and any non-legislative alternatives fall short of addressing it.

Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 13th September 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his overview of this statutory instrument. I am very grateful for the detail. As your Lordships’ House will be aware, there was much discussion in the other place about the detail of this SI and its financial impact. Although I do not wish to rerun the debate, it would be helpful to the Committee if the Minister could provide us with a little more information.

Paragraph 7.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum notes that a post-implementation review of the original 2016 regulations “was completed in 2020”, and it made a number of recommendations about changes to the regulations. Other than the need to make this change to support the rollout of extended producer responsibility for packaging, why has it taken the department three years to bring the instrument forward? Are any other changes due and, if so, when can we expect to see them?

A key justification for this instrument is that new data will improve quality monitoring and the consistency of recycling collections. There remain, however, substantial differences between recycling collections across different parts of the country, and we know that work on new schemes, including the deposit return scheme for plastic bottles, is behind schedule. Given the complexity, why have these workstreams not been given greater priority?

Paragraph 7.11 of the Explanatory Memorandum notes that all material facilities must

“comply with the regulations from 1 October 2024”.

Can the Minister outline what steps would be taken if material facilities are found not to be complying?

During debate in the other place, it was made clear that stakeholders are concerned about the lack of clarity regarding the implementation of the new regime. Paragraph 11.1 states that guidance is forthcoming, but it would be fair to say that the Government have an occasionally poor track record on providing timely guidance. Can the Minister commit to a fixed date to reassure the sector? Also highlighted in the House of Commons was a survey that found that over half of recycling facilities lacked the space to undertake the enhanced sampling required under these regulations. What kind of advice or support is Defra providing? If there are extra costs, either in relation to these checks or arising from the need to store data for longer, where will they fall?

Finally, I wonder whether the Minister can build on the discussion in the other place and the comments from the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, regarding the lack of an impact assessment and the discrepancy in views between stakeholders and the department, with some material facilities suggesting that 80 new staff will have to be employed, at a cost of £1 million a year. What additional conversations has the department had, what reviews are being put in place to judge the impact and what are the timescales for these? I look forward to hearing from the Minister.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I thank the noble Baronesses for their interest in this. I am delighted that the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, is a waste nerd. Her social life is fascinating—having dinners discussing this—and I will seek to answer in a way that respects her genuine expertise. She is absolutely right that consumers will play a key role. In a way, this also responds to what consumers are demanding. When I was a councillor, my local authority recycled and diverted away from landfill approximately 17% of waste. I am glad to say that the administration who took it over raised the rate of diversion away from landfill to 90%. Householders are determined that the circular economy described by the noble Baroness should be relevant to their lives. They object dramatically to the idea that waste diverted from landfill goes to other countries, so we want to make sure that we are creating a circular economy in this country and that there are markets for the amount of waste produced.

The noble Baroness is right that we are increasing the amount we require to be checked to 60 kilograms per 75 tonnes. After close consultation and discussions with experts and local authorities and working with materials facilities operators, we think that is realistic and will give us the data we require to have a really clear view of what is being provided by these facilities. I cannot tell her what percentage will be separated waste and what will be mixed waste because different local authorities have different contracts and arrangements, but I assure her that we are involved in a detailed level of engagement and that issues such as the EPR administrator are fundamental to making sure that this progresses.

Both noble Baronesses raised the question of deposit return schemes. Noble Lords will be aware that we want to try to align our deposit return scheme across the United Kingdom, if possible. That has required us to talk closely to Scotland—which has, frankly, messed it up—and we now seem to be in a position to take forward, by some point in 2025, an effective and meaningful deposit return scheme that will deliver a massive environmental benefit. I am reminded that the plastic bag levy has seen a reduction in the use of plastic bags of more than 95%. We think that a properly structured deposit return scheme should have only a marginal inflationary effect and should incentivise people to be part of a scheme that will see a dramatic reduction in waste.

The noble Baroness, Lady Anderson, touched on the timescale of the deferral. The deferral does not apply to all obligations and requirements under EPR. The start of producer payments under EPR will be deferred by 12 months. This addresses another point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell. Producers obligated under EPR are still required to collect and report data as per existing regulations. We need this data to develop and then share estimated EPR fees. Gathering and sharing this information will help businesses prepare for these changes, and it is something that businesses have asked for. EPR payments deferral will also impact on some specific timelines, including the introduction of modulated fees and binned packaging waste fees and payments.

We are concerned about cost, and our response to the consultation on the EPR scheme included an impact assessment, which has been referred to and which covered the expected costs to materials facilities. As we developed the amending legislation, the definition and types of materials facilities that would be in scope were clarified. As a result, we updated our assumptions regarding the number of facilities that would be in scope from 739 to 159, reducing the sampling burden where possible. Using these updated numbers, we have estimated a lower cost associated with this legislation.

This is really important: the costs associated with the new requirements within this SI were found to be lower than previously estimated in the impact assessment produced for the EPR scheme. Although the scope has reduced, the methodology to estimate the impact on the materials facilities of enhanced sampling remains unchanged from the previously published EPR impact assessment.

Environmental Civil Sanctions (England) (Amendment) Order 2023

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 13th September 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, it is a delight to be back in the Moses Room. I hope noble Lords all had a rewarding and relaxing recess—if they can remember it after eight days. We come together again after a summer of yet more horrendous headlines about illegal discharges into our waterways, amateur athletes being taken ill after swimming in our rivers and, apparently—according to the Office for Environmental Protection—the Government and our regulators may have broken the law with regard to the 852 sewage discharges that are now occurring daily. This is a sorry state of affairs.

It is only right and proper that we review the current regulatory and enforcement framework so that we ensure that criminals are punished for breaking the law. I just worry that the proposals in the legislation before us are more of a political stunt rather than a plan to deal with the current crisis affecting our waterways, given that uncapped fines are already available to the financial regulator.

I know from personal experience that the Minister is truly committed to protecting our environment. His record is clear and not to be questioned. However, we are seeing such mixed messages from the Government regarding their commitment to environmental regulation: they promised not to reduce regulation yet, even as we speak, their proposals in the Chamber regarding nutrient neutrality in the levelling up Bill are seemingly a broken promise related to this issue. So I am sure that the Minister understands why some of us have some concerns about the current state of environmental regulation and enforcement.

I turn to the substance of this SI. We will of course support these changes but, as was made clear during the debate in the other place, His Majesty’s Opposition are not convinced that these actions alone will make any real impact on the sewage crisis currently before us. Given the urgency of the situation and the facts that your Lordships’ House sat for longer than the other place prior to the Summer Recess, that MPs agreed the legislation on 18 July and that it was laid before us on 12 July, can the Minister confirm why this SI was not brought forward for approval sooner?

There is a long history of regulators having the power to issue fines or pursue legal action but there are relatively few cases of these steps reaching a conclusion. What, if anything, makes the Minister believe that this time will be different? Can she provide the Committee with more detail about how these fines will be set aside and spent? The Secretary of State has previously said that they will go into a dedicated fund, which will, where possible, invest in local improvements. Can the Minister provide a definition of “local”? I do not aim to be difficult but is this an aim or a requirement? What will happen if it is thought that infrastructure improvement elsewhere would have a greater impact on future discharge levels in a locality?

While I have the Minister’s attention, can he update us on when the sewage task force established by Defra last met? I believe that it has met only once in the past 12 months. If the Government are truly serious about tackling this crisis, the task force may wish to meet more regularly than once a year. I look forward to hearing from the Minister.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I thank both noble Baronesses for their response to this instrument and their qualified support for what the Government are doing. The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, rightly pointed out that the consultation produced a clear level of support, which is why we are taking this through.

The noble Baroness, Lady Anderson, asked why this is being brought forward now. It has been through a process, including the consultation and the response to it, and SIs cannot be done overnight. They need to be drafted and brought forward properly; I think that we brought this one forward in as timely a way as possible. I hope that she does not think that this a stunt or any form of window dressing because it is a very serious attempt to tackle the justice gap that I referred to in my earlier remarks. The SI was brought in to address precisely the justice gap that exists within the environmental civil sanctions regime. Expectations of the Government and the public on protections for the environment are higher than ever. We need to address this gap and ensure that regulators have the right tools to take action against environmental offences.

The noble Baroness asked whether this will make a difference. Deterrent is the best form of avoiding pollution in the first place. If the level of fines was no deterrent and was being priced in by some bad actors, that will no longer be the case and they will face very severe financial penalties indeed. It should be added that, since 2015, the Environment Agency has concluded 59 criminal prosecutions against water companies and secured £150 million in fines. The regulators—the Environment Agency and Ofwat—have recently launched the largest-ever criminal and civil investigation into water companies’ sewage discharges, at more than 2,200 treatment works. The Environment Agency will act against non-compliance. This will include criminal prosecution, for which there can be unlimited fines. On 12 July we began legislation to introduce unlimited civil penalties, which is before the Committee today.

This needs to be seen in the context of more activity than there has ever been to try to address the quality of our waters. The storm overflow actions start from the basis of knowing where the storm overflows are, which we did not when we came into government. The coalition Government set about requiring water companies to tell us where their overflows were. We are now at the point of knowing every single one, and that is part of the reason why a light has been shone on the activities of some water and sewerage companies. Transparency is the best form of sanction because people can see what is going on—and so can the enforcement authorities. We have increased monitoring and will have 100% monitored by the end of this year.

Other continuous efforts will be part of this. In 2022, 93% of our bathing waters in England met the highest standards of “good” or “excellent”, up from 76% in 2010, but that statistic will not see us rest on our laurels. We want to make sure that all bathing waters are of good or excellent standard. We are eliminating all storm overflows and seeing investment levels never seen before.

The noble Baroness asked about the sewage task force. I do not know when it last met, but I am happy to find out and share that. There are a whole lot of engagement activities, including talking to water and sewerage companies and working with the Environment Agency. Just because one body has not met, that does not mean there is not a resolve to deal with this problem; this is part of it. I hope that, with those remarks, I have addressed this statutory instrument.

Orphan Sites: Hazardous Waste

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Monday 4th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Lord is asking about an issue that is not in my knowledge. I will therefore write to him on the matter.

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

The Minister knows that the dumping of hazardous waste is on many occasions undertaken by organised crime gangs. Given that, how many successful prosecutions have there been over the last 12 months of individuals who have abandoned responsibility for hazardous waste sites?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right that organised crime is involved in this, as well as very low-level speculative crime, and it is important that we have measures in place to deal with that. In the financial year 2021-22 the Environment Agency brought 94 prosecutions against companies and individuals for waste-crime offences, resulting in total fines exceeding £6.2 million. In the three years since the Joint Unit for Waste Crime was launched, it has worked with 102 partner organisations and engaged in 175 multiagency days of action, and there have been 51 associated arrests.

Climate Change

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 11th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises a really important point. What we are doing through our environmental land management schemes and future farming is to try to make farming more resilient in so many ways. One of the great difficulties we face in the east and the south of England is that we have rainfall levels in many parts that are equivalent to some sub-Saharan African countries, and using water, slowing it and using it more sensibly, with the production of more reservoirs, is crucial. Also, the Bills that this House has passed, such as the one on gene technology, producing crops that are more resilient to drought, are really important.

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, in his recent resignation letter, the noble Lord, Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park, cited a concern that

“the UK has visibly stepped off the world stage and withdrawn our leadership on climate and nature”.

He told us:

“The problem is not that the government is hostile to the environment, it is that you, our Prime Minister, are simply uninterested. That signal, or lack of it, has trickled down through Whitehall and caused a kind of paralysis”.


Does the Minister agree with his former colleague?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

This Prime Minister, when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer, agreed to the doubling of our international climate finance contribution to £11.6 billion, one of the most generous of any country. I have been to three recent COPs and seen that the United Kingdom is revered in this area of policy in a way that I cannot put words to, because we are leading on so much of this. At COP 27, the UK committed to tripling its funding for climate adaptation finance. In 2021, the UK was the first Government to endorse the principles for locally led adaptation, which has now been picked up by 140 countries. We are very much a leader, and I know that this Prime Minister, who gave that assurance again at the more recent COP, is right behind making sure that we are tackling this the greatest challenge that mankind has ever faced.

European Union: Trade Barriers

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 4th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, the operations manager at Felixstowe port, Hannah Panting, told the BBC that Defra has informed it that the health authority will have to check between 1% and 30% of EU food exports. She rightly pointed out that the unknown is very difficult to work with, and that it is nice to have a plan and know what your targets are. I think the House would agree. Can the Minister assist Hannah?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We work very closely with Hannah and other port managers—for example, on the common user charge, which is a way of alleviating very high costs on some and very low costs on others, which we think is fair—but we also work with local authorities. The local health authority is also facing a cost-recovery arrangement. We are making sure that we have a risk profile that minimises the number of stops for low-risk items, but we are absolutely focused on the problem. We will continue to work with ports and all other authorities to make sure that the impact is minimised as much as possible.

Farm Animal Welfare

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Monday 26th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

This is a fast-moving technology all over the world, and I think people look at it with some suspicion in terms of where plants come from and what has to happen to plants in order to make them both taste like meat and look like meat. We want to support a livestock industry in this country that continues to have a much wider benefit across the rural economy but with the highest welfare standards possible. However, in this area of policy, if a Minister was to stand at this Dispatch Box and go to the furthest extreme possible, there would still be people in the animal welfare movement—or more the animal rights movement—who would say it is too little, too late; you will never satisfy everyone. I think the Government have this right.

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

Nearly three years ago, the campaign group Christian Ethics of Farmed Animal Welfare published a report exploring the ethics of current farming practices, yet little has seemingly progressed. When Christian churches are concerned about severe welfare problems experienced by caged laying hens, broiler chickens and the impact of fast-growth breeds, we should probably take note. What discussions is the Minister having with chicken farmers to encourage transition back to slower-growing, higher-welfare breeds of chicken, as recommended by the RSPCA?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I refer the noble Baroness to my earlier comments about the power of the consumer here and retailers in informing their consumers and providing what they want. There is that side to it, but the Government have a role. The UK is currently 91% self-sufficient in eggs and produces 40 million hens per year. The movement for them to be either in cages where there are high welfare standards or reared in the open air is now moving very fast, but there is more that we can do. That is why we passed several rafts of legislation in recent years: the Animal Welfare (Sentencing) Act; the Animal Welfare (Sentience) Act, which does have relevance here; the Animals (Penalty Notices) Act; and a whole range of other measures, which we described in the Action Plan for Animal Welfare which the Government are taking through. Some of them are legislative but not all of them.

Animal Welfare (Electronic Collars) (England) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 13th June 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow my noble friend Lord Ponsonby. This SI is a necessary piece of legislation and His Majesty’s Opposition will support it. Many of us have and have had wonderful family pets who are and were central to our family life. I come from a family of dog owners, having had an Alsatian and a crazy—maybe not batshit—springer spaniel as cherished childhood pets. I cannot imagine why anyone would wish to use an electronic shock collar for training, rather than treats.

A 2019 study carried out by the University of Lincoln found that electric shock collars compromised a dog’s well-being, even when used by professional e-collar trainers. They were also found to be no more effective than training using positive reinforcement methods. This is far from the only evidence that collars cause harm to animals. We therefore strongly welcome the introduction of this SI.

Given that the consultation took place in 2018 and featured in the 2021 action plan for animal welfare, why has it taken the extra time to bring the measure forward? As acknowledged in the Explanatory Memorandum and by the Minister, the Welsh Government acted on this back in 2010. Can the Minister inform the Committee why we are legislating 13 years later? Do our colleagues in Wales care more about corgis than this Government care about bulldogs?

We welcome the decision to include an exemption—outlined in paragraph 7.12 of the EM—for those with protected characteristics. This will help those who have a legitimate need for collars that emit sound, vibration or other non-shock signals, whether for the owner’s benefit or the animal’s. After all, Labradors, golden retrievers and German shepherd dogs are so valuable for those of our citizens who are dependent on service dogs. It would be an anathema to them that anyone would seek to train their support dogs via shock treatment.

We also note the exemption on the use of electronic collars for the Armed Forces, where this is required for defence purposes. The Minister knows that we share a keen interest on issues pertaining to our Armed Forces. Does he have any estimate of how many dogs this is likely to affect and which breeds, and is he personally satisfied that the Armed Forces’ animal welfare standards are robust in this area?

The Kennel Club is campaigning for the same measures to be introduced in Scotland. Its chief executive, Mark Beazley, was quoted in the Independent as saying:

“More action is urgently needed in Scotland, where regulations are needed to replace the ineffective guidance currently in place, and we will not rest until we see the complete ban on these devices that cause suffering and harm”.


What discussions, if any, has Defra had with Scottish counterparts?

We all have a favourite breed of dog, whether that is a Labrador retriever, a Border collie or a cockapoo. There are more than 13 million pet dogs in the UK. Their owners will expect us to do everything we can to protect their pets from harm, which is why we are supporting this SI. After all, who could countenance the image of a cocker spaniel, a Jack Russell or a labradoodle being subject to electric shock treatment?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am grateful to noble Lords for their important contributions to the debate. This instrument will deliver on another commitment made in the Government’s action plan for animal welfare. As a nation of animal lovers, we are united in our commitment to do what is best for the welfare of our pets. Protecting them from unnecessary suffering is an important step towards that goal.

Almost unique in any animal welfare debate, I think, has been the absence of a response I get to almost any measure we bring in, which is, “That is all very well, but—”. Usually, people want you to go further. I have been to enough animal welfare events and debates in this and the other place where people always want more. But we hope that we have introduced something that is proportionate, addresses the concerns of animal welfare organisations—I will come on to talk about who we consulted—and reflects the need for this.

Several noble Lords asked about our exemption for the Armed Forces. They are right: this instrument includes an exemption for His Majesty’s Armed Forces where required for defence purposes. This is a specific and limited exemption to ensure that important national security and public safety capabilities are retained. The use of an e-collar in such circumstances would be subject to the internal Ministry of Defence animal welfare standards and permissions. I say to my noble friend Lady McIntosh that it is entirely legitimate that she puts that question to Ministry of Defence Ministers. They have very high standards for animal welfare right across the Armed Forces. There is an exemption here, for reasons of a specialist nature, for certain uses of dogs. I will not go into any more detail, but I assure the Committee that I have been convinced by the evidence I have heard on that matter.

The noble Lord, Lord Jones, asked who Defra engaged with in drawing up the ban. We ran a public consultation on proposals for a ban in 2018. A total of 7,334 responses was received, including approximately 6,000 from members of the public. The remaining responses were from organisations or individuals involved in fields relevant to electronic training collars, dog trainers or vets. Animal welfare groups support the ban, as do veterinary surgeons, the training sector and assistance dog charities. In the way that the data was compiled, an individual’s responded was counted as one and an organisation’s was also counted as one, but those organisations may have reflected the views of many hundreds, possibly even thousands, of members. It may be not quite right to talk about it in terms of percentages. Of course, animal welfare is a devolved matter and we engage closely with the devolved Administrations on a range of issues, including this policy.

A number of people have raised the issue of the increase in sheep worrying in Wales subsequent to the ban. I investigated this closely in the lead-up to our debate on this statutory instrument. It is clear that, across police forces, there has been increased activity and an increased determination to work with both the public and farmers to report sheep worrying events; that may be the reason why we have heard of more cases. Sheep worrying is a disgusting thing to witness. I have had livestock killed and injured by dog worrying. This Government have taken immense pains to try to limit these sorts of activities. We will continue to work with others to make sure that we limit the number of livestock worrying incidents and dog attacks.

REACH (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 13th June 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his overview of the SI before us and for his correspondence in advance of today’s debate. I also thank all noble Lords for their contributions, which highlight the importance of the discussion. Given the discussion in the other place, it will not surprise the Minister that His Majesty’s Opposition will support this SI. However, we have some specific concerns relating to the direction of the post- Brexit REACH regulatory framework and the capacity of the HSE as a statutory body to provide effective enforcement.

As we discussed last week in our debate on the packaging waste statutory instrument—I am becoming a pro—the collation of this data is key to the implementation and enforcement of an effective regulatory regime. But that requires the Government to move at speed to ensure that they have the data available to make informed decisions. Paragraph 7.1 of the Explanatory Memorandum states:

“The changes provide sufficient time for the government to develop and introduce a new registration model that will cater for EU registrations transferred to Great Britain under Title 14A of UK REACH”.


The Government have known about the need to develop and introduce this model for seven years. In fact, the Minister will remember that discussions regarding the future of REACH were a regular feature of the debate around Brexit in the other place before and after the referendum. Given that the industry has been doing everything possible to support the department in reaching a new model, can the Minister inform the Committee why the department is so far behind schedule and why this is being addressed only now?

Paragraph 7.2 of the EM states:

“The statutory timelines for HSE to carry out their compliance checks on the information submitted by industry are also being extended to align with the data submission deadlines”.


I sound like a stuck record, but this is a similar situation to the ones we have seen with imports of food and certain goods from the EU, with launch dates repeatedly postponed due to a lack of preparedness. Can the Minister inform the Committee why we repeatedly need to extend the deadlines?

Later paragraphs of the EM—from paragraph 7.7 onwards—explain why His Majesty’s Government have opted to take a different approach and outline the likely timescales on implementing changes to IT systems. Why were industry concerns about the cost of the original proposal not given more weight at the time? How many civil servants have been used and how much financial resource has been spent on the original option? How much of the work that has already been done can Ministers carry over? While industry supports the changes being made, concerns have already been voiced about the workability of the alternative system and its potential implications for safety, which must remain paramount. We are not against divergence from the EU, but we must not allow gaps to form in our regulation of chemicals. Neither businesses, workers nor citizens will benefit if health and well-being are put at risk unnecessarily.

The Minister in the House of Commons, Rebecca Pow, addressed concerns about the HSE’s capacity by saying:

“Its capacity is increasing all the time … by 2025 the number of HSE staff working on UK REACH delivery is expected to grow to 50, and the number is around 60 or 70 if we consider the wider support functions”.


We welcome that ramping up of capacity, but is the Minister satisfied that this staffing level is sufficient given the areas that we are talking about? In that debate, the Minister also said that the department

“will be developing a chemical strategy”

and that we

“will hear more about that in due course”.—[Official Report, Commons, Fifth Delegated Legislation Committee, 16/5/23; cols. 9-10.]

Can the Minister here, the noble Lord, Lord Benyon, be any more specific? How confident is he that this will not simply be added to the list of items that arrive late?

I sincerely believe that each and every one of us wants nothing more than a regulatory framework that keeps our population safe and secure. Given the nature and importance of the REACH regulations, it is therefore vital that we do not just get this right but get it done quickly.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am grateful for noble Lords’ interest in this issue, their important contributions to this debate and their support for the REACH (Amendment) Regulations 2023. I will deal with as many of the points as I can.

On my noble friend Lady McIntosh’s point, I can absolutely confirm that there is no intention to amend or revoke any of these measures in the next two years. I will come on to the point about cost.

On the 2024 date, which the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee and a number of noble Lords raised, I repeat the point that I made earlier: the Government are confident that we will be able to meet that date. I am sure that noble Lords will be active in holding the Government to account on that.

On the point made by the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, the Health and Safety Executive continues to increase its capacity. The National Audit Office report from May 2022 details the increased staffing levels at the HSE, including the staffing level in its Chemicals Regulation Division going up by 46% between September 2020 and March 2022. The HSE has continued to build capacity in the last year. In the longer term, by 2025, the number of HSE staff working on UK REACH delivery is expected to grow to 50, or around 60 to 70 when considering wider support functions.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, mentioned that the staff in the EU directorate numbered 600. Of course, that covers the whole of the EU, which is a considerably larger area, but nevertheless we seek to align any regulatory changes we can with them, working with the EU, and I will give more assurances on that.

Water: Wales and England

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 7th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, we all appreciate the urgency of ensuring sustainable water supplies for the entire country. However, 60 years on from the flooding of Capel Celyn, the sensitivities of the reallocation of Welsh water resources to English cities needs to be understood. As not a single reservoir has been built since privatisation in 1989, will the Minister update the House on what recent meetings Ministers have held with Thames Water, the National Infrastructure Commission and the relevant local authorities to discuss the proposed Abingdon reservoir and associated schemes?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The Abingdon reservoir was brought to Ministers over a decade ago, and the case made by Thames Water was not correctly put forward. We told them to go back and do it again. They have, and this will now be part of their water resources management plan, which will go to Ministers this year. I hope that we can learn from this. It should not take two to three decades for really important infra- structure to be built.

Packaging Waste (Data Reporting) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Monday 5th June 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for outlining the amendments to the data reporting regulations, which your Lordships’ House passed in February this year. As it is a sunny Monday afternoon and we are all rather relaxed after the recess, I will not be churlish but will congratulate the Minister and his department for listening to industry and bringing amendments this quickly. His Majesty’s Opposition support this and all measures that actively seek to promote better use of our natural resources and active recycling programmes. The establishment of correct base data is fundamental to the success of the associated schemes. However, I have a few questions for the Minister, which I hope he can assist us with.

While I appreciate that the SI is limited in scope to data collection to ensure that we have accurate facts and figures at hand for the imminent implementation of the extended producer responsibility scheme, there are substantive issues associated with the EPR itself. Can the Minister assist us with an update following news coverage last week that the food industry is seeking delays to the implementation of the extended producer responsibility scheme? Can he assure the Committee that the current timescale for implementation remains in place? Would the Minister also be kind enough to inform your Lordships of his department’s most recent engagement with both the British Retail Consortium and the Food and Drink Federation regarding the details of the scheme, given their public concerns?

Much debate in the other place focused on the potential impact of this new scheme on small businesses, many of which are facing other challenges at present. We appreciate that Defra has carefully considered the turnover and tonnage thresholds, and that the department has been running engagement sessions for producers, but does the Minister have anything new to say on information sharing and implementation dates?

These regulations also add the obligations of importers, which were

“Erroneously omitted from the original statutory instruments”.—[Official Report, Commons, Second Delegated Legislation Committee, 23/5/23; col. 1.]

Given that imported packaging makes up around 8% of that placed on the UK market each year, and that, by the Commons Minister’s own admission, not including this data would “distort the system”, how is it possible that Ministers missed this before now?

Among other things, this SI deals with reusable forms of packaging, such as bottles or containers that may be used to purchase household items at zero-waste shops. The Minister knows that questions have been raised, via the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, about the potential for offsets to incentivise the early recycling of reusable packaging, so that firms avoid paying producer fees. The department’s response has been published online, but could the Minister read a summary into the record?

These seemingly minor changes to the regulatory framework could have a further inflationary effect on our food prices when the EPR is implemented. Food inflation is running at 19.1%; if food manufacturers opt to pass the full costs of these regulations on to the consumer—a sum the BRC currently speculates to be in the region of £1.7 billion per annum—it will have further inflationary effects. In the middle of a cost of living crisis, it is therefore vital that we get this right.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their valuable contributions to the debate. I turn first to that from my noble friend Lady McIntosh regarding her concerns about offsetting for widely recyclable, single-use materials that a producer collects for recycling. The packaging extended producer responsibility scheme will not allow for this material to be used to offset disposal costs, because it could risk duplicating existing collection systems, which would reduce overall system efficiency. In doing so, this would shift costs on to other producers.

On my noble friend’s wider concerns about the packaging EPR, we have listened to feedback from the industry very carefully and have amended our proposals following consultation. This has reduced the cost to businesses from an estimated £2.7 billion to £1.4 billion per annum. That addresses some of the wider concerns expressed about the impact this could have, and the last point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson, about any inflationary effect, which I will address later.

We are committed to continuing to work closely with industry on the final design of the scheme and our delivery plans. Defra has set up a business readiness forum and a local authority forum in order to keep businesses, producers and local authorities up to date about changes. These groups have been meeting regularly since January this year.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, raised the issue of a de minimis. The collection and reporting of data by smaller producers is done to inform a review of whether the de minimis should be reduced in future years. She is absolutely right that this will need to be revisited by another statutory instrument next year as we see these systems bed in.

On the question raised by my noble friend Lady McIntosh about whether this is the right time and whether there should be a delay, I note that as part of the transition between the old and the new regulations, producers and compliance schemes may need to continue to comply with their 2023 obligations in respect of packaging placed on the UK market in 2022, which are determined by the 2007 regulations. It is planned that the data reporting regulations and the 2007 regulations will be revoked by the new Producer Responsibility Obligations (Packaging and Packaging Waste) Regulations 2023, which are expected to come into force towards the end of this year. The regulators will keep producers informed about compliance requirements as part of the transition from the 2007 to the 2023 regulations.

I really do recognise the concerns about the timing of this, but it is vital that we do not delay the scheme. We are working on implementing the packaging extended producer responsibility from 2024. In doing so, we are continuing to engage with stakeholders to ensure that the burdens of transitioning to this new scheme are minimised.

Local authorities will be able to collect dry recyclable waste streams together in circumstances where it is not technically or economically practicable to collect the waste streams separately, or there is no significant environmental benefit to doing so. Shortly, we will publish the government response to our consultation of last year, which will also confirm any exemptions to separate collection whereby local authorities can co-mingle recyclable waste streams in all circumstances. It is important to set this scheme in relation to other factors.

On whether this impact will feed through to household bills, we have to recognise that there is a huge cost to the taxpayer in the environmental impact of not recycling. The only way we can encourage more recycling is to know precisely what companies are doing, how they are using it and therefore how we can incentivise them to change behaviour. Huge benefits have been achieved by companies that have addressed this in what they do and made a virtue of it. We want to support them in this.

An important point was raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, regarding Wiltshire Farm Foods and apetito. As she says, they do wonderful work in providing food for sometimes vulnerable people, and they recycle their trays in a closed-loop system. Producers will not be permitted to off-set their fees where the packaging in question is collected for recycling by more than 75% of local authorities. The key reason for this is that we do not want to incentivise producers to start collecting their own household packaging for recycling where that packaging is widely collected by local authorities. We want significantly to increase kerbside recycling through consistency and extended producer responsibility, and to do so in the most efficient and effective way. Potentially competing arrangements are unlikely to achieve this.

We also want to encourage producers to move to reusable packaging and reduce single-use packaging where possible. That is why we have included an exemption to this rule for any packaging that is being used as part of a reuse system—for example, reusable glass milk bottles.

I will speak to my honourable friend Rebecca Pow to make sure that she follows up on her agreement to have a meeting with Wiltshire Farm Foods or apetito, or both. I am sure that that is in the process of happening and I will make sure that it does.

With those few words, I hope that I have addressed the concerns raised today. I am grateful that noble Lords have indicated their willingness to accept this instrument. It will make crucial changes to the Packaging Waste (Data Reporting) (England) Regulations 2023. These changes will ensure the proper functioning of the packaging recycling evidence scheme and that fair producer fees are set that reflect the true amount of packaging that arises as waste in the UK. These amendments will also clarify the definition of a brand owner, ensuring that producers have confidence in where their obligations lie.

Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Monday 22nd May 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, I have a heavy cold, so if I start sneezing I apologise in advance.

I thank the Minister for his overview of these regulations. His Majesty’s Opposition agree that the management and protection of our groundwater is vital for sensitive ecosystems and a range of key industries that have already been outlined, so we support these proposed changes to the regulatory framework. However, I have a few questions for the Minister following on from the debate held in the other place.

The environmental permitting regime came into force in 2010, and the amendments made by this SI are described as minor tweaks which

“provide a more proportionate, risk-based regulatory approach”.

Although the changes might be considered minor, and although we have no major objections, could the Minister outline when during the last 13 years various deficiencies referenced in paragraph 7.10 of the Explanatory Memorandum were identified and why it has taken so long for the revisions to be brought forward?

As highlighted by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee’s comments on the SI focus in part on its potential implications for the use of technology such as hydraulic fracturing. Although Defra says that it is not currently aware of any proposals for low-volume, low-pressure fracturing in deep formations containing groundwater in the onshore oil and gas industry, can the Minister outline any specific stakeholder engagement on the issue and say how long it will be kept under review and reported on should the situation change?

In the House of Commons, the Minister, Rebecca Pow, committed to write in response to specific questions on sewerage undertakers’ liability for certain offences under the EPR. Does the Minister have a copy of that correspondence that could be read into the record? If not, is he able to provide a copy to participants?

Finally—without sneezing—this new suite of potential exemptions will require enhanced monitoring and enforcement arrangements. How confident is the Minister that the Environment Agency has the resources to oversee the additional workload, given that research published by Unchecked UK states that the EA has seen cuts equivalent to 25% of its staffing base and 63% of its funding since 2009?

Protection of our delicate ecosystems in the coming decades is a responsibility that falls on all of us, especially given the challenges posed by climate change, so it is vital that we get the regulatory framework correct and have the enforcement structures in place.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am grateful to your Lordships for your important contributions to this debate and for what I sense is support for the amendments to the 2016 environmental permitting regulations. These amendments will optimise the regulatory tools available for managing and protecting groundwater quality. I am delighted that we are delivering on the Government’s commitment to ensuring that the quality of our groundwater resources is protected.

I will now address the points made. First, my noble friend Lady McIntosh and the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson, raised hydraulic fracking. The Government’s moratorium on high-volume, high-pressure hydraulic fracking for shale gas is very much still in place. Hydraulic fracturing is already permittable in some geological formations. The amendment will allow control through permitting of stimulation techniques including hydraulic fracturing in all formations that have the potential to release heat and energy, but only where it is demonstrated to be environmentally accessible. I make the point to my noble friend and all noble Lords that there is no change or diminution in protections; it just allows us to have a system that is more suitable to the problems with which we are dealing.

Treated sewage effluent discharges can contain high numbers of microorganisms, including harmful pathogens. Where such discharges occur very close to private drinking water supplies, the risk of potential harm to health increases. This amendment provides the ability for the regulator to apply proportionate, risk-based controls to prevent microbial pollution where the risk deems it necessary.

The existing environmental permitting regulations specify that a water company sewerage undertaker is not guilty of an offence relating to discharging sewage effluent under certain conditions, such as if a third party made an unauthorised discharge into the sewer, resulting in a discharge from the works breaching the permit conditions at that site. That is fair. However, the defence applies only to the offence of operating without a permit, not the offence of contravening permit conditions, which is more commonly the case.

This change is necessary because that situation creates uncertainty for water companies and enforcement difficulties for the Environment Agency. The amendments provide legal clarity for the Environment Agency to be able to take enforcement actions, including prosecutions, with more certainty of success, and do not reflect the previous legal position where the defence was open to both offences of operating without a permit and in breach of permit conditions.

On the point about chicken slurry in the River Wye, that is not classified as groundwater so these regulations do not apply in those circumstances. However, we are tackling that issue through a variety of different actions to protect that important river environment.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, also asked what we are talking about here. An example would be a SSSI, which we have a vital duty to protect. We want to see 75% of them in good condition in just a few years’ time.

The noble Baroness asked about the definition of a mobile plant permit. It is a type of environmental permit used to regulate shorter-term, temporary activities which utilise equipment that is designed to move from site to site. Discharges into river are separate from discharges to groundwater; both need permits to discharge pollutants into the environment.

On the question of geothermal schemes, only proposed systems in sensitive groundwater locations will need a permit from the Environment Agency. This means that the use of this green energy technology is still an option in locations that cannot meet the exemption conditions, and any potential impact on groundwater quality can be controlled.

On the questions relating to the consultation, the public consultation was held from September to December 2021 to seek views on the nine amendments. The draft statutory instrument was published on 23 March 2023. As I said, there were 264 responses to the consultation. Overall, there was majority support for the consultation, except for the proposals to mitigate potential groundwater impacts from cemeteries, which showed clear opposition. I have some knowledge of this issue. When I was in the other place there was an application to create a green burial ground—the sort of land use which I think many of us would support; it is a type of burial that is particularly attractive to individuals and their families who want one which is perhaps more environmentally friendly. Some of the misunderstandings about the impact of that resulted in me, as the MP, receiving letters saying that body parts would be found floating down the river, and things like that. That is not the case. These burials are very much in keeping with the environment. They need licensing, as do any such schemes, and this will allow us to have better systems of protection.

The noble Baroness raised a point about garden burials; I may have to contact her with details. Due to the low intensity of the impact of such burials, I do not think that is important.

On the question of why this SI has been brought forward and why it has been delayed, I am absolutely happy to explain to the Committee that the current changes are a long-standing issue that has been delayed several times due to reprioritisation during EU exit and Covid. Improving the regulatory regime for groundwater is a priority for this work by reducing regulatory burdens and freeing business to grow and invest.

I will find out about the letter from my honourable friend Rebecca Pow. We are not sure where it is in the process, but I am certainly happy to share it with Members of the Committee.

In conclusion, I hope I have addressed the points raised by your Lordships and thank you again for your contribution. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

Microchipping of Cats and Dogs (England) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Wednesday 19th April 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for providing an overview of this very important statutory instrument and also thank his team for the helpful briefing that it provided.

The issue of microchipping cats has been widely consulted on, and these regulations are, of course, supported by His Majesty’s Opposition. Let us be clear why we are here today: one-quarter of all owned cats are not currently microchipped, which compares unfavourably to their canine friends, as only 10% of dogs are not chipped. While that statistic is surprising enough, the scale of the problem is compounded by the fact that 59% of cats taken in by Battersea Dogs & Cats Home and 80% taken in by the Cats Protection adoption centres were not chipped. That can truly be heartbreaking for those pet owners who have lost their feline friends and cannot be reunited with them. As a proud nation of animal lovers, we must do better, which is why these regulations are so important. However, I would like to ask the Minister a couple of questions related to the implementation of the regulations.

Can the Minister confirm that the department is in discussions both with local authorities and with the relevant charities to ensure support for those who will struggle to meet the financial obligations associated with the implementation of the regulations, as has been highlighted?

On a further point, Rebecca Pow, the Minister in the other place, this week suggested that a further SI would follow regarding the microchipping database system and the need to have a standardised system in place for relevant parties to access. Can the Minister inform us as to when we should expect both the SI and sight of these plans to streamline the 22 current systems?

I would also be grateful if the Minister could provide your Lordships’ Committee with the definition his department and relevant stakeholders will be expected to use to differentiate between owned, feral and community cats.

We all want nothing but the best for our pets and those animals which we see in and around our communities every day—or currently on the campaign trail—which is why the Labour Party supports this statutory instrument. I pay tribute to the animal welfare organisations which have campaigned on this issue for many years and brought it to our attention, most notably Battersea Dogs & Cats Home, Cats Protection and the RSPCA, whose work we recognise today.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am grateful to noble Lords for their important contributions to this debate and for the support for the compulsory cat microchipping provisions. I join the noble Baroness in paying tribute to Battersea Dogs & Cats Home, Cats Protection, the RSPCA and other organisations which have long campaigned for this. I hope that we will see this on the statute book in the very near future—I should just say to the noble Baroness, Lady Doocey, that it will kick in in June 2024.

Microchipping has established substantial benefits for the welfare of our pets and offers peace of mind for their keepers. I am delighted that we are delivering on the Government’s manifesto commitment, which is so strongly supported by the public. I will address as many of the points as I can.

On enforcement, the maximum fine is £500. My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked about the implementation of this with regard to dogs: I think almost 500 people have been fined for not having had their dog microchipped.

My noble friend also asked what the definition of an “owned cat” is. Colloquially, the term refers to cats that are generally kept as pet cats; free-living cats such as farm, feral or community cats that live with little or no human interaction or dependency are not regarded as owned cats. The statutory Code of Practice for the Welfare of Cats will be updated to include the new requirement for compulsory microchipping and provide further clarification that may be needed. We will consider issuing guidance on enforcement to local authorities. Of course it is difficult to define in government and legislative terms something so broad as the life of cats. We know that some move very short distances away from their owners, whereas others live virtually as wild animals.

Microchips are used to identify dangerous dogs. All prohibited dogs which receive an exemption under the Dangerous Dogs Act must be microchipped. It is mandatory to microchip your dog, and since 6 April 2016 it has been a requirement for dogs in England to be microchipped. Puppies over the age of eight weeks must be microchipped and their details recorded on one of the compliant databases. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland also have mandatory dog-chipping requirements in place.

We recognise how painful it is for an owner to lose a pet. When I was in the other place, dog theft was a major issue in the Berkshire/Oxfordshire area, and it struck me as a new MP that it was not being taken seriously, particularly by the police in those circumstances. Losing a pet in this way is a horrible crime that completely ruins people’s lives, so it is important to be able to work locally and make sure that the profile of that is raised. I know that police and crime commissioners have gone a long way towards making this a much more seriously viewed crime among local police forces. Great work is happening, and we want to make sure that that continues.

On a point mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Trees, compulsory microchipping will make it easier for deceased cats to be reunited with their owners and for their owners to be informed of the circumstances. Highways England and the majority of local authorities already have procedures in place to scan dead cats and dogs found by the roadside. In addition, we are committed to improving the operation of the microchip databases.

Further on my noble friend Lady McIntosh’s point about fines, in fact 421 fines were issued for this offence; 1,126 various summary offences contrary to the Microchipping of Dogs (England) Regulations 2015 have been imposed, with an average of 84 fines per year, the average fine being £204.

Many noble Lords have raised the issue of the databases. The legal framework for database operators that store cat microchip records mirrors that currently in place for dogs. My noble friend is absolutely right: there are 22 separate databases that hold themselves compliant with the legislation, 21 of these also accept cat microchip records and a list can be found on GOV.UK. Our current consultation, to which the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson, referred, will address the point of access to the data on those databases. She is absolutely right: at the moment, you can access under which database it is listed, but then there is a further procedure. We are seeking to create one portal which will enable the veterinary surgeon or whoever is scanning the cat to identify the owner as quickly as possible. We think that is really important. The consultation on the microchip database system reforms closed on 20 May last year. We are currently analysing the responses with a view to introducing reformed measures this year, and we will be issuing a response to the consultation soon.

In response to my noble friend Lord Caithness, dog breeding is regulated under certain circumstances, but cat breeding is not. As puppies can be rehomed from eight weeks of age, the requirement for them to be microchipped by eight weeks ensures that the breeder is the first registered keeper—I am sorry: I cannot remember who raised this. The Government decided to raise the age at which a cat should be microchipped from the proposed 16 to 20 weeks due to responses in the public consultation. This is to allow the procedure to be carried out alongside neutering, which may be routinely carried out up to 20 weeks, so it fits with those specific requirements of cats, as opposed to dogs.

My noble friend Lord Caithness also raised the important issue of wildlife being killed by cats. It is very hard to legislate against this, but millions of birds are killed every year by domestic pets, many of them cats. We of course encourage responsible ownership. There are various things that a cat owner can do to make it harder for it to catch birds—where you put your bird feeder is but one of them—but he raises a very important point. The number of feral cats, although they can be very useful in farmyard settings for controlling vermin, is also part of the problem with killing birds, and we need to see a reversal in the decline of species in this country. We have a very firm commitment, and we are open to any suggestions which can help with responsible pet ownership. It is not just cats: if you watched “Springwatch” last year, you will have seen a dog destroying a redshank’s nest on the North Norfolk coast. People must control their pets and be responsible. We recognise that the damage that can be done by irresponsible pet ownership can be devastating to rare species.

We agree with the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Trees, about scanning not being compulsory. We agree with his position and thank him and the royal college for their support on this matter.

Agriculture (Financial Assistance) (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent and Lord Benyon

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction to this SI. While this is my first outing shadowing him, I am sure it will not be my last—unless this goes horribly wrong—and I look forward to our interactions in the months ahead. I also thank his officials for indulging my newbie questions in the briefing.

In recent weeks, our newspapers have been filled with tales of food shortages, excessive levels of food inflation and the associated food poverty. There has even been a national debate about our domestic turnips. No longer is the impact on our farmers and rural communities reserved to news stories on “Farming Today”. We live in a period of global uncertainty and economic challenge; this is no less the case for our domestic agricultural economy than for any other sector. Labour shortages, new bureaucracy and the ongoing impact of the war in Ukraine on grain and energy supplies are having a direct and daily impact on our domestic food supplies, as well as on the natural environment.

It is therefore vital that, in our post-Brexit world, we get the regulatory and payment structures fit for purpose to ensure security of food supply, and that we do everything that we can to support our farming businesses and communities. They are invaluable to our long-term sustainability and security, and we all rely on them. That is why the Labour Party will not be opposing this SI. However, I have some questions for the Minister relating to the implementation of the regulations.

The financial assistance amendment places more burden on Defra civil servants in terms of monitoring and the likely ongoing adaptation of some of the financial assistance schemes already launched. Can the Minister confirm that Defra has the resources to apply these changes in a timely manner over the next 12 months, given the additional strains which would be placed on his department by the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill, should it pass into statute? I promise that I do not seek to rerun the arguments which were heard in Committee on the REUL Bill last week; rather, I seek reassurance from the Minister that this has been considered and that appropriate resources are in place.

Following on from the debate in the other place on this statutory instrument, I hope the Minister can assist the Committee in answering some specifics which his colleague, the Farming Minister, failed to address. My colleague Daniel Zeichner sought clarification on Regulation 5(c); can the Minister confirm which schemes do not require a request for payment but will instead require an annual declaration to the Secretary of State? How many cases do we believe will fall into that category each year?

I also seek clarity on points raised by the right honourable Kit Malthouse in the other place in Committee. Referring to paragraph 7.6 of the Explanatory Memorandum, he asked:

“Does that mean that, without parliamentary consent, the Minister can start or close a new scheme or quietly”—[Official Report, Commons, Delegated Legislation Committee, 28/2/23; col. 8.]


abandon a funding mechanism that is no longer viable? As my noble friend Lord Grantchester highlighted, given the significant discretion that now rests with the Secretary of State, can the Minister confirm that, when schemes are launched, amended or closed, the department will be required to consult their beneficiaries before the terms are revised? If so, to what timetable will the department work?

I know that the Minister has vast experience of this area, which I do not claim to have, and is committed to making these regulations work for our farmers. I look forward to working with him in the months ahead to deliver the best possible deal for our rural communities.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their valuable contributions. I start by welcoming the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson, to her position; I built up huge respect for her when we were on Select Committees together and am delighted that she will be holding me to account—I should be careful what I say; I am a bit nervous because I know what an effective parliamentarian she is. It is great to see her in her place.

I shall tackle as many of the points raised as I can. In response to my noble friend Lady McIntosh, this is a devolved issue, so this instrument, like all our agricultural policy, is for English farms only. We are working really hard to make sure that the vast majority of the schemes that we take forward are available to tenants. We have changed the rules so that tenants can access schemes without the consent of landlords in the vast majority of cases, particularly in the sustainable farming incentive. We are working through the Rock review, which is a brilliant piece of work, and want to see as many of its recommendations implemented as we can, as quickly as possible.

My noble friend asked about the need to update the 2022 guidance. There is no need to because we are not changing the policy. There is no need for an impact assessment for the same reason. She asked about area payments in relation to Scotland and England. I cannot comment on what Scotland is doing because we are still not entirely certain. However, I can say with every fibre of my being that the need to move away from area payments is long overdue. When I arrived at Defra in 2010, the Farming Minister was Sir Jim Paice. He was absolutely clear, and I agreed with him, that we need to prepare the farming community to move away from the completely unacceptable system whereby the largest farmers get most of the money. The CAP system and area-based payments were not friendly to small farmers. Under our schemes, small farmers will be able to be more fleet of foot and adapt.

Upland farmers will have access to 130 of the standards that we are seeking to implement. I will talk more about that in future. I worked with Julia Aglionby; her input in trying to make our schemes fit graziers who have access to areas of uplands in particular has been invaluable. I gather Ms Aglionby is publishing her assessment of what this means. We will examine that and respond to it.