Public/Private Partnerships

Debate between Lord Wilson of Sedgefield and Lord Howell of Guildford

Monday 7th September 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

We will deploy public/private partnerships where it is in the best interest of the Exchequer and of the public to do so, because we need to protect taxpayers’ money. My noble friend is absolutely right, however, that we benefitted under PFI, with those 100 new hospitals, new schools and new health centres. That has to be celebrated. Yes, you learn lessons, but I hope we will go on to see more public/private partnerships in future—but only if it is in the interest of the Exchequer to do so.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned the private finance initiative. As he will probably be aware, many countries now, in many jurisdictions, are adopting new risk allocation systems built on PFI. These include—I have a long list here—France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Canada, Australia, South Korea and Japan. What are we doing about this, as we were the inventors of it? Can we make some more developments in this direction, which could even help calm the bond markets and lower our appalling debt interest?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for that question. The Government are learning from all these other jurisdictions. The 10-year infrastructure strategy set out the Government’s long-term plans for the economy and we are going to invest some £725 billion over that 10-year period—so some £72 billion a year. Obviously, if we are going to do that, some of it will end up being in public/private partnerships but, as I have said repeatedly, just like we would with any other scheme, we are only going to do what is in the best interest of the taxpayer and of the Exchequer.

Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Industry

Debate between Lord Wilson of Sedgefield and Lord Howell of Guildford

Wednesday 19th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. I congratulate Scotland on qualifying for the World Cup, and there were some really good goals last night. It was really sad to hear that news about the plant at Mossmorran, which produces ethylene for export, employing 179 people. The Minister has spoken to the chair of the company and the unions, and the Government stand ready to provide support through the DWP rapid response service. The plant is 40 years old, has been loss-making for five years, and would take £1 billion of investment to turn around. This is a commercial decision by the company. The chair of ExxonMobil has confirmed to the Minister that he was not suggesting that the closure was due to a lack of action by the Government. The Government will do all we can to help those who are in difficulty.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, is there not one more hydrogen potential that the Minister has not mentioned? In transporting electricity, or transporting hydrogen, the prospect can be raised of avoiding having to cover the whole country with thousands more electricity pylons, as NESO is currently predicting. I agree that that means lower costs for hydrogen, but better lower costs and transport than paying huge sums of money to owners of wind farms not to produce electricity at night at all.

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question, which raises a very important issue. It is fair to say that hydrogen cannot provide all the answers to issues around energy provision, but it can reach those hard-to-reach businesses such as steel and chemicals, for example. We need to set up a system in which we can do that. The Government are investing in that; we are spending tens of millions of pounds on doing just that. It is something that we want to see grow into the future. As I have said, by 2050 it will be a $1 trillion industry, and the UK has to be part of it.

Modular Nuclear Programme

Debate between Lord Wilson of Sedgefield and Lord Howell of Guildford

Wednesday 15th October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

Under the agreement that we have just signed with the USA, that is going to happen as soon as possible, but no later than 2028.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Given that Hinkley, the French-designed nuclear project, has been billed as the most expensive the world has ever seen, and the plan is to repeat that in a replica at Sizewell, can the Minister tell us what thoughts the Government had on an alternative design at Sizewell of small reactors, which would be quicker to build, cheaper, attract more private investment and vastly reduce the demand on government funds?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

The Sizewell C position is that it will create many jobs in construction and apprenticeships, and for the next 60 years will supply energy to around 6 million homes. It is absolutely right that the idea of the SMR programme is to create a modular reactor which is easy to assemble and duplicate and will keep down costs into the future. It is imperative that we keep ahead of the curve on this.