Public/Private Partnerships: Shares

Debate between Lord Wilson of Sedgefield and Baroness Kramer

Monday 3rd November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

I agree with the noble Lord and accept his point of view. There have been a lot of benefits from public/private partnerships in the past—they have invested in many schools and hospitals, where pupils and patients have benefited—but we need to look at how we reform public/private partnerships and make them fit for the future. Obviously, the National Infrastructure and Service Transformation Authority, which was set up in 2020, has a great part to play in that.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, first, we on these Benches join in the commiserations with the noble Lord, Lord Livermore. Does the Minister agree that for a successful PPP, in addition to the key point made by the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, not only is an educated public sector negotiator is required but clearly defined projects that will not undergo variances, and financing, in essence, set out up front and not used as a back-end bargaining tool? Does he agree that these and the other lessons that we learned before mean that there are relatively few projects that will meet the criteria for a public/private partnership?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

We will look at public/private partnerships in the future. We are looking at them in a limited way for neighbourhood health centres, for example, and public estate decontamination projects, but we need certainty over future funding, which is why we have committed over the next decade at least £725 billion of investment in infrastructure so that we can ensure growth.

Planning and Infrastructure Bill

Debate between Lord Wilson of Sedgefield and Baroness Kramer

Report stage
Monday 20th October 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord in Waiting/Government Whip (Lord Wilson of Sedgefield) (Lab)]

My Lords, Amendment 22, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, proposes that the National Infrastructure and Service Transformation Authority—NISTA—be given a new responsibility to receive, assess, investigate where appropriate and oversee whistleblowing disclosures related to nationally significant infrastructure projects. The amendment seeks to ensure appropriate protection for whistleblowers and co-ordination with relevant regulators and planning authorities.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for raising this important issue and have listened carefully to her remarks. While I recognise the intention behind the amendment, I must say again that I do not share the view that there is evidence of whistleblowing being a current, widespread concern within the NSIP regime. As she will know, there is already a well-established framework of prescribed persons and bodies to whom whistleblowers may turn, independent of their employer, as provided for under the Employment Rights Act 1996. They include organisations covering areas such as environmental protection, health and safety, transport, utilities and local government, which are of direct relevance to NSIPs.

Adding NISTA to this list would duplicate existing functions already carried out by regulators, such as the Environment Agency, which have the appropriate expertise and statutory powers. Given this existing framework, we believe that adding another body to the list would create a duplication of roles and, in any event, would not require primary legislation to achieve, as new persons or bodies can already be prescribed through Section 43F of the Employment Rights Act 1996. In the light of this, I respectfully invite the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, I am saddened by the Government’s response. The next time we have a major project and there is a major scandal, they will have to take ownership of it. They looked at the framework that delivered us the problems on HS2. The names of the whistleblowers are now public: Doug Thornton and others reported that financials had been distorted, misrepresented and covered up, which delayed the making of a series of appropriate decisions on HS2. In the end, they were fundamental in requiring the truncation of what had been a much larger scheme. Crossrail is a similar example. Until about eight weeks before it was due to open, nobody in political decision-making knew that the project had fallen into deep trouble. It ended up being delayed by four years and was £4 billion over budget. This is repeated again and again. We have had similar problems with Hinkley Point and many other projects. That is what the current framework, which the Minister defends, actually delivers.

If the nettle is not grasped, we will see the same experiences again. Even if it is in only 10% of the projects that are anticipated for the future and that will be relevant to the growth agenda, the consequences will be significant. The existing framework, no matter what it says on paper, has demonstrated that it is unfit. Look at the Post Office scandal, the contaminated blood scandal, the issues in the NHS, the PPI scandal and the series of financial scandals—the framework does not work.

I ask the Minister to take the issue away, speak with some of his colleagues and see what can be done to make sure that, at least within the context of infrastructure, there is an effective channel that works. It must provide protection for whistleblowers in a real way, not just on paper, and lead to the necessary investigations. Given that, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Child Trust Fund Accounts

Debate between Lord Wilson of Sedgefield and Baroness Kramer

Wednesday 19th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

We know that there are real difficulties with this, and cross-departmental activities are taking place to try to resolve the problem. I understand from the courts that the Government are committed to bearing down on the outstanding caseload left by the previous Government, and the challenges we face in doing so are significant. As a crucial first step, we are funding another 108,500 sitting days in the courts this financial year, which is the highest level we have had for a decade.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, in cases where a parent or guardian were unable to set up an account for their child, the Government opened a savings account on the child’s behalf. Can the Minister give me an assurance that all these children, for whom HMRC must have both contact details and legal authority, have been reached and are not part of the group who are unaware of the funds they have available?

[Lord Wilson of Sedgefield (Lab)]

All young people who have trust funds are contacted at the age of 17, and those who do not respond will be continually contacted. Secondly, the funds available to them will be available for ever or until, potentially, things change; but at the moment, there is no reason why that should happen. Those funds will be there for as long as they need to be, before they are drawn down by the child. The one thing to remember is the funds not having been accessed does not mean that the person who can access them does not know they are there.