Commonwealth Meeting and the Philippines

Mike Gapes Excerpts

Monday 18th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly agree with my right hon. Friend that links between Commonwealth parliamentarians are very helpful for raising these issues. His first point is absolutely spot-on: because of visiting the north and raising these issues, human rights, and questions about land reform, reconciliation, and investigations, were top of mind for the press, the media, and everyone in Sri Lanka in a way that they simply would not have been.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister says that the Government will press the issue in March next year at the United Nations Human Rights Council. In the light of that council’s woeful record—at one point, it actually praised the Government of Sri Lanka for their internal policies—how confident can he be, given the authoritarian states and friends of Rajapaksa who are on the council, that we will get anywhere on this in the UN?

[The Prime Minister]

I think this is going to be very hard pounding for a very long period of time, but what the Sri Lankan Government need to understand, and I think understand more today than perhaps they did a week ago, is that the issue is not going to go away, and if they do not hold an independent inquiry, the pressure for an international inquiry will grow and grow. Using the UN human rights machinery is the right way to do that.

Syria and the Use of Chemical Weapons

Mike Gapes Excerpts

Thursday 29th August 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The options in Syria have never been easy or risk free, and today all options are bad ones. The reality is that in the past two and a half years, the international community has betrayed those secular, enthusiastic people who tried to get democratic change in their country. Because of our hang-ups about our past, because President Obama was not interested, and because of Russian and Chinese vetoes in the Security Council, we have not given support, and that has led to the brutality, radicalisation and extremism that we confront today.

This debate has not made me proud. I am sad and I believe it tells me something about our country today when I hear people saying, “It’s none of our business” and “We shouldn’t get involved” when 100,000 people are dead and 4 million displaced from their homes. Today, increasing numbers of Kurds are fleeing Syria to go to the Kurdish region of Iraq where Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons to kill the Kurds in the Anfal campaign in 1988, yet nobody seems to realise the significance of that.

I have reservations about both the Government motion and the Opposition amendment because I believe they are inadequate. They both talk about deterring the future use of chemical weapons, but I do not think one can deter the use of chemical weapons simply by firing missiles symbolically—a “shot across the bow”, or whatever phrase President Obama used. I think the strategy the United States is about to launch is doomed to fail in its objectives.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

The hon. Gentleman is extremely knowledgeable about Syria and I am extremely concerned about the implications for the wider region if we launch military action—heaven forbid that we agree to do so. Will he outline to the House his assessment of the implications of military action for the wider region?

[Mike Gapes]

If military action is simply based on the kind of inadequate gesture politics that we seem to have coming from across the Atlantic, it will be a disaster and will inflame the people in the region. I believe, however, that non-involvement and non-intervention also has consequences, the most serious of which is that simply saying we will deter the future use of chemical weapons assumes that only the Assad regime will possess such weapons. What happens when areas of the country where chemical weapons are stored are overrun by elements of the jihadist-linked opposition who get them and pass them to al-Qaeda? What happens when, to try to secure some of those weapons and not let them get into the hands of the opposition, Assad gives them to his ally, Hezbollah, which tries to take them for potential use against Israel or elsewhere?

We must talk not only about deterrence but about the removal and ultimately the destruction of those chemical weapon stockpiles that date back to when the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia provided them to Assad’s father and his regime. I believe that these issues will be with us, however we vote today, next week and next year. In three or four years’ time we will still be confronting the issue of chemical weapons and we must get real about that. I will be supporting the Opposition amendment today, but I think we must go further.

Afghanistan and EU Council

Mike Gapes Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I may be a little more optimistic than my hon. Friend, but I think the most likely outcome is that both those things will happen. One of the reasons why I think a peace process can get under way is the fact that, in recent statements, the Taliban have effectively said that they do not want Afghanistan to be used to harm other countries. I believe that the decoupling of the Taliban from al-Qaeda is well under way, and I think that that is positive.

I also do not believe that America, NATO, ISAF or any of us are walking away from Afghanistan, and I think that that is positive as well. As I have said, we will maintain the officer training academy and our funding of the Afghanistan national security forces, and I think it likely that the Americans will maintain a presence in the country—to be negotiated, of course, with the Afghan Government.

Obviously we want to see a peace process succeed, but, as we have always had to explain, our security response of training the Afghan national army and police force is the key part of making sure that the country will not fall back under Taliban or al-Qaeda control, and, having observed the effectiveness of those forces, I think we can be confident that they are capable of ensuring that that happens.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Prime Minister take this opportunity to praise the skill, persistence and dedication of the European Union’s High Representative, Cathy Ashton, and her staff in securing the welcome agreement between Serbia and Kosovo on normalisation on 19 April? Will he also take this opportunity, while he is supporting further enlargement of the EU, to explain why we are in favour of other countries joining the EU, but many members of his party want us to leave?

[The Prime Minister]

Let me first pay tribute to Cathy Ashton and the very good work that she does in the European Union, which I see at first hand. We work very closely together, and I know that she works very closely with my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary. While some of the dossiers for which she is responsible must be immensely frustrating—I am thinking particularly of the Iranian negotiations—there is no doubt that she can take a huge amount of credit for the opening of accession negotiations with Serbia and the completion of the process of accession for Croatia. I made that very clear at the European Council meeting.

As for the hon. Gentleman’s comments about my party, let me point out that the Conservative party has always been in favour of the widening of the European Union. We have been arguing for that for decades. Indeed, we were arguing for it, and delivering it, in the 1980s, when the hon. Gentleman’s party stood on rather a different ticket.

G8

Mike Gapes Excerpts

Wednesday 19th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister is aware that 30 years ago, a United States President and a British Conservative Prime Minister decided to arm the mujaheddin in Afghanistan, with consequences that are still with us today in belated talks directly with the Taliban. The Prime Minister mentioned Mali. I was there two weeks ago and we are aware that arms that came out of Libya led to al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb almost taking power in that country. What guarantee can he give the House that if he decides to arm elements of the Syrian opposition, we will not be dealing with the same problems in this country and the rest of the world in 30 years’ time?

[The Prime Minister]

We have not made that decision and let me say that on Libya, I think it was right to work with others, including the French. There was cross-party agreement to do that and get rid of Gaddafi. Of course, that work is never done, but that should not be an argument for never doing anything anywhere. If we take action, as we do in Libya, we must do everything we can to help the successor regime that is democratically elected get weapons out of Libya, and that is what we are doing. Those are all arguments for engagement and working with partners—not putting our soldiers at risk or taking steps we are not capable of, but working with others to try to get good outcomes.

Tributes to Baroness Thatcher

Mike Gapes Excerpts

Wednesday 10th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Thinking about what to say today, I looked at my bookcase, and I came across three publications from the 1980s: “Thatcher’s Britain: A Guide to the Ruins,” to which I contributed in 1983, “Breaking the Nation,” published in 1985, and the Fabian Society’s pamphlet “ABC of Thatcherism,” published in 1989. I do not have time, in four minutes, to quote any of them, but they are well worth reading, although they may be out of print.

I was the parliamentary candidate in 1983 in Ilford North. We had huge, enthusiastic meetings for the Labour party during that campaign, but because of the split in our party, the SDP and the divisions, we had a terrible defeat. The lessons for Oppositions to draw from that period are that it is essential to preserve party unity, and essential to recognise that enthusiasm for one’s party and hatred for the other side is not necessarily a guarantee of a victory.

In February 1990, the opinion polls in this country put the Labour party at 56%, under Neil Kinnock, and the Conservatives at 23% under Margaret Thatcher. We know what the Conservative party did in its ruthless manner, which has been mentioned by previous contributors to the debate, but there is a lesson there for all of us in opposition: you cannot count your chickens about what the position might be in two years’ time.

In the brief time remaining, I want to say a few words about foreign policy. Mrs Thatcher was absolutely right to sign the Single European Act. She was absolutely right to be in favour of enlargement of the European Union. The consequences of those policies have influenced the politics of this country ever since. That is why we have free movement of people in the European Union. That is why we have the current debate about immigration policy. A lot of that is to do with economic decisions taken at that time. It is well worth our thinking through the consequences for the future.

On other foreign policy issues Mrs Thatcher was wrong. We have heard about South Africa and her attitude to Nelson Mandela, and I am very pleased that Nelson Mandela is still with us today, in this world, and I hope he carries on living for a decent period of time, so that he is able to understand more about the changes that have taken place in this country since the days of Margaret Thatcher, because one thing she did was to cut the overseas development budget. It went down to 0.26% of GDP, yet this coalition—I praise them for it—has kept to Labour’s pledge of funding at 0.7% of GDP, which shows that what is being done in the world today is very different from what she did in government.

One other thing that Mrs Thatcher got wrong was her attitude to the unification of Germany. She was vehemently against it, but as a result of that unification, and at great cost to the Germans in the west, we have seen the peaceful transformation of central and eastern Europe, as well as the enlargement of the European Union and the end of communism in our continent. Those fantastic achievements could not have been achieved without the support of Margaret Thatcher but, above all, the man responsible was Mikhail Gorbachev, whom she recognised as a man she could do business with. As we heard, she should be praised for that, because she convinced Reagan, although she sometimes tried to rein Reagan back when she was wrong to do so, as at the Reykjavik negotiation, where he was ahead of his time and ahead of the world today in aspiring to a world without nuclear weapons.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

European Council

Mike Gapes Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right. A secret ballot in a Parliament is an extraordinary concept. MPs and MEPs should vote transparently so that their constituents can hold them to account. They have to account not only to their electorates but to their countries, which will suffer if a deal is not passed through.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Prime Minister confirm that his Government are still in favour of future enlargement of the EU beyond Croatia to countries in the western Balkans and, potentially, elsewhere? Given that this budget lasts until 2020, what provision is there in it for any further accessions of new states after Croatia?

[The Prime Minister]

We are in favour of further expansion of the EU to the countries of the western Balkans and others, as the hon. Gentleman says. Obviously, there is room in the budget for cohesion and other payments, but the fixed amount of payment ceiling— €908.4 billion—cannot change.

Algeria

Mike Gapes Excerpts

Monday 21st January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Let me say first that my hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise the issue of extremists from other parts of the world who are based in the United Kingdom and who threaten our security. The Government are doing everything that they can to ensure that we are secure from those people. We also need to address the issue of being able effectively to deport people when they threaten our country.

On the specific question my hon. Friend asks about the threat to the UK of al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, the principal threat it poses is, as I said, to those countries in the region and to the people of those countries in that region, and to our interests and our people in that region. But there has been a history with the al-Qaeda franchises whereby they become magnets for terrorists from elsewhere, and pretty soon we find that their ambitions and the risks that they pose go wider.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister said that he was going to push the issue of terrorism on the agenda for the G8. Will he also raise it with the EU 27 and the NATO 28, and try to get better co-ordination between the United States Africa Command —AFRICOM—in Stuttgart and the European security and defence policies?

[The Prime Minister]

I will certainly take the hon. Gentleman’s advice, and he makes a good point. The reason for specifically mentioning the G8 is that in that slightly smaller forum it is possible to have an in-depth conversation with American, French, Italian, Canadian and other partners about what more we can do to thicken our various defence, security, political and diplomatic relations with countries in, for instance, north Africa, making sure that we do not all fall over each other in trying to do the same thing in the same country. We should be recognising that in some cases there are very strong British relationships that we should build on, but in others the relationships may be French, Italian or American.

Algeria

Mike Gapes Excerpts

Friday 18th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think my hon. Friend is entirely right. Relations between Britain and Algeria are good, contact is good, but there is always a case for doing more. We have had very good contact over the past few days but I will not hide the fact that we were disappointed not to be informed of the assault in advance. We want to help in any way we can with technical and other assistance, but we should show understanding that the Algerian Government face a huge threat from Islamist terrorists. They were facing a situation in which there was imminent threat to life, and we should bear that in mind in the comments that we make.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I thank the Prime Minister for his statement and ask him to reiterate the importance of the economic relationships between Algeria and this country? Many homes in this cold winter—not just in this country but in other parts of Europe—are heated by gas that comes from Algeria. Surely the key message is that we will not allow terrorist organisations to break or undermine that economic relationship, which is not just in Algeria’s interest but also in ours.

[The Prime Minister]

I think the hon. Gentleman puts the point extremely well. One of the most important things about our country is what an open, trading, investing country we are. British citizens live and work all over the world and, as I thought the Leader of the Opposition put particularly well, they are working hard to do the right things and we should support them in that. We must recognise that, as a result, that puts particular emphasis on the importance of our foreign and diplomatic policy, and also our military co-operation with other countries. Part of the role of government is to try to keep our citizens safe wherever they are, and in those terms the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about the economic relationship between us and Algeria. We have many companies with huge expertise in the exploration of oil and gas. They are a major part of the British economy and we should be supportive of them. The work they do in Algeria is vital for Algeria and it is also vital for us.

European Council

Mike Gapes Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend has made a very good, very clear case. He has always held that view. I shall set out in my speech in the middle of January the path that we should take for the future, but let me say now to Members in all parts of the House that, as I tried to explain in my statement, what is happening at present in the European Union is a process of change, driven by what is happening in the eurozone. As a number of Members have pointed out, it is quite a slow process at the moment, but I believe that at some stage it will speed up radically. When we discover that we really do need greater elements of banking union, fiscal union and other co-ordination, a greater treaty change will be proposed within Europe, and I think that that will give us an opportunity to secure the fresh settlement that we want.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Is there still an EU arms embargo? It has been reported that France is already supplying equipment to some opposition groups, and at the same time this country is providing non-lethal equipment. What exactly is going to happen? What kind of equipment will we be providing? Given that Qatar and Turkey are already arming the more extreme jihadist groups, is this an argument for rebalancing within the Syrian national coalition?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman has made a number of important points. On the first part of his question, I have seen no evidence that any European Union powers have broken the arms embargo. We certainly would not do that; it would be wrong and illegal. I think it is worth looking at the embargo and asking how we can best work with the parts of the Syrian opposition that want a proper transition to a free and democratic Syria. The hon. Gentleman made that point in his own question.

European Council

Mike Gapes Excerpts

Monday 26th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am very grateful for my right hon. and learned Friend’s support. It has been important to have these alliances on behalf of countries that want a sensible settlement. We now have to work very hard to keep that alliance together so that we can land a deal that is in the interests of British taxpayers and, I would argue, taxpayers across Europe.

[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister said that he wanted to galvanise a coalition of like-minded countries and referred in another answer to the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Germany. Is it not a fact that, while they may have tactically agreed in this summit, there are very large differences between all those countries and his party’s position?

[The Prime Minister]

Actually, I think that the hon. Gentleman is wrong about that. The countries on the list that I read out are our classic allies that we put together in almost every year’s budget negotiations to try to ensure a reasonable outcome. The problem is that annual budgets are decided on a qualified majority basis, so we can be outvoted. The multi-annual financial framework is subject to unanimity, so we can put our case vigorously. The point that I made in my statement is that if we do not achieve a new framework, we will need even more than today to keep the tough budget discipline together for the annual budget negotiations that follow.