International Women’s Day and Protecting the Equality of Women in the UK and Internationally

Lord Young of Norwood Green Excerpts

Thursday 17th March 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Young of Norwood Green (Lab)]

I have the unenvious task of being yet one more pale male.

I do not always agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, but I agreed with many things in her contribution. I certainly agree with her that, next year, we should not let us become second-class citizens and have the debate in here again. It should be in the Chamber. The symbolism of it—that this has somehow become a second-class debate, with someone saying, “It’ll do, just put it in the Moses Room”—has rightly been remarked on. He was one of my ancestors was perhaps not the most progressive male on the planet, but he was a man of his time. And I cannot help but say to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham that the Church fought long and hard to have women bishops. It has to mark its calendar; they should be represented.

I want to return to the last part of the debate. I disagreed with my noble friend Lady Thornton when she endeavoured to say, “Well, this is how it is and we shouldn’t go there”. Well, the noble Lord, Lord Farmer, did go there, as he had absolutely every right to do. He asserted a view that is held by many—perhaps not by my noble friend, but by many—that there is a biological sex of men and women.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

Please just stop there.

[Lord Young of Norwood Green (Lab)]

No, I am not going to stop—

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

Noble Lords deserve to be heard in their contribution to the debate.

[Lord Young of Norwood Green]

Thank you, but I was not going to stop anyway.

This is an important debate, and it is an issue that deserves to be aired on International Women’s Day, as the noble Lord, Lord, Farmer, did. I want to draw attention to women who I think have been very strong and willing to express a view. My interest in this debate started with JK Rowling, who had the temerity to suggest that there was a word, and it was “women”. That produced an unbelievable uproar, and it was followed by Kathleen Stock, who lost her job trying to say the same thing. Interestingly, another woman I admire, also mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord, Farmer, is the noble Baroness, Lady Falkner, who took over a really tough job at the Equality and Human Rights Commission saying much the same thing: that women’s safe spaces should be protected and that people have to respect the view that there is such a thing as women, which has nothing to do with saying that we should in any way discriminate against transgender people.

The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, mentioned the very important Cass review that came out recently and found that in the current system, far too many young people are being offered puberty blockers on the basis that they have changed their gender. In fact, 80% of people who presented at the Tavistock clinic with symptoms of gender dysphoria discovered, by the time they reached 18, that they are either gay or lesbian, and that trying to change their body was not the solution to their problems. There was the famous case of Keira Bell, who went to extreme lengths and then realised that that was not the solution to her problems in life.

These are difficult issues. The importance of the Cass review is that it says that there should be clinics around the country and much faster treatment for young people. The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, mentioned young people with autism. I was listening to a group of concerned clinicians recently, and they said that the huge impact of social media on young people is the biggest single factor that makes young girls believe that, somehow, they are in the wrong body. We should not underestimate the impact of social media.

The older I get, the more I find that the women in my life are the most interesting. The women that I have met are inspirational. I shall refer to some of them. I recently came across the woman writer, Bernanadine Evaristo. What an amazing writer. If you have not read her, I recommend her book, Girl, Woman, Other, but even more superb is her autobiography, Manifesto. It tells you what it is like growing up in a mixed-race family in the 1960s: pretty tough. She fought over the years to establish herself. I was grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, because I am a lover of Renaissance art, but it was not that long ago that I discovered Artemisia Gentileschi. There are some wonderful people in the arts.

There are three women I know who I admire. I chair an advisory committee on a social enterprise. The CEO who runs it is an absolutely amazing woman called Jenny Holloway. She pays herself very little. She recruits and trains mostly women in Haringey. They learn how to become machinists and cut patterns to be able to start their own businesses. She single-handedly decided that she would save the Laura Ashley factory in Powys when it closed down, much against my advice because I thought it was mission impossible. She succeeded, and is opening another training establishment in Leicester to stop women there being exploited in the clothing industry.

Ushma Patel is the power behind the throne of the local landlord in my pub. What makes her interesting? We started to chat one night and she told me that she had donated a kidney and not long after that climbed Mount Kilimanjaro. I once thought about climbing Mount Kilimanjaro with two kidneys, never mind one. I take my hat off to Ushma, who is an amazing woman.

My wife does God in our family, as I somewhat irreverently state, but I go along occasionally on high days and holy days. Once I went along and listened to a lay minister, Liz Wolverson, give an amazing sermon. She fascinated me. I learned a bit more about her. She is the diocesan director of Church of England schools in London. She has rescued probably 10 failing schools. She is a tough cookie: she gives the head teacher six months and if they do not improve she waves goodbye to them.

In my opinion, these are really interesting women. There are many more of them. I am an admirer of Kemi Badenoch, the Minister for Women in the Government.

Last but by no means least on my list, I will mention the Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Stedman-Scott. I did not know a lot about Debbie. We were talking one day and she told me about her life in the Salvation Army, which she educated me about in a way I never knew before. She can sing some damn good salvation songs as well, but I will not get her to do that here. What I admire about her—I checked, and she would not mind me saying this—is that she is out but proud. That takes a lot of guts. Whatever you think about the policies she annunciates on behalf of the Government, and not everyone will agree with them, nobody can accuse her of not caring.

I ought to hurry up. The Minister talked about more women in STEM. I prefer STEAM, to get the arts in there. It is changing. I am meeting more women in apprenticeships. The Industry and Parliament Trust had a dinner and there were some wonderful women there. There was one young black woman bringing up a disabled child who had joined as a bus driver. I asked, “What’s it like being in a bus garage? All the rest are men, aren’t they?” She said yes. I asked about the banter. She said, “It’s pretty bad, but I’ve learned to hold my own.” The manager of the company was there, and I pointed out to him that it was not about her holding her own but about him improving the management and training in that company.

We should not be too despairing about what is happening. I met two young British Asian women recently who absolutely staggered me. I asked them what they do; I was stereotyping and thought that they were going to be doctors, lawyers, accountants, whatever. One was a civil engineer and the other a quantity surveyor working on HS2. I said, “I’ve got to go and meet your mum and dad.” That is fantastic to see. We should not despair. The other young woman apprentice I met was a paralegal, interestingly. That is another route into it.

Are attitudes changing? I think they are. People laugh when I say this, but I see more men pushing children in buggies than I ever used to. Have things changed fundamentally? No. There is a lot more progress to be made, of course. Men need to be more involved in childcare.

Nobody has referred to the impact of the pandemic we have been through, with lots more working from home. Women have suddenly begun to think, “Why do I have to commute five or six days a week? I want more time, especially if I’m going to be involved in childcare.” I agree with some of what the noble Lord, Lord Desai, said.

There has been a lot of talk about single parents and I agree that childcare costs are very important. Too many fathers are still abdicating responsibility and we do not do enough about that. But what is the single most important thing we could do for a single-parent family? Get somebody in that family into work. That has one of the most profound influences. Then children do not grow up in a family where generation after generation seems to think that they do not need to join the world of work. They do; it is fundamental. The example set by a mother being in work is important.

You can criticise universal credit—people frequently do. Some do so because they do not really know much about the system, I have to say. But let me say this. First, I understand the concern about the £20, but people forget about the taper change, which made quite a difference when people were in work. Secondly, the most staggering achievement of the universal credit system is the digitisation. Some 6 million extra people were able to go on to universal credit during the pandemic. That was an astonishing achievement. Many women were able to take advantage of it.

On pay equality, pay for work of equal value, I look at my son and daughter. I am really proud of Laura, my daughter. She is an advanced clinical practitioner in A&E at Northwick Park Hospital and worked right through the pandemic. She is absolutely brilliant. She is twice as qualified as her brother, Paul, but earns half as much. Why? Because he is in IT. That is the value that we put on them.

This has been a fascinating debate. I would like to end by mentioning the woman who I admire most—the one who has put up with me—Lady Margaret. She is amazing. She is a very skilled craftswoman, but is modest about her achievements. She brought up the family mainly, in my absence. She has a very sharp sense of humour. Recently, we were looking at a bottle of wine in Marks & Sparks. It was quite expensive, so I said, “What are we celebrating?” Quick as a flash, she said, “Well, we’re still alive.” That is something we all need to celebrate. I have enjoyed taking part in the debate and look forward to mission impossible for the noble Baroness, Lady Stedman-Scott, as she covers the waterfront.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

Well, my Lords, here’s to mission impossible. I will do my very best to answer as many questions as I can. I am sure that I will not be able to answer them all but, with my officials, I will make sure that I write a letter, that every question is answered, that the Committee will all receive a copy and that it goes into the Library. I can tell noble Lords that it is definitely not a second-class debate and I can tell the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, of my great mantra: it is not what you say, it is what you do; and it is not what you promise, but what you deliver. That is what we should all be judged on.

If I may have a moment to say to the noble Lord, Lord Young: William Booth was absolutely at the head of equality. He commissioned men as lieutenants, captains and all the rest of it, but there were as many women holding the same ranks. There was no differential.

[Lord Young of Norwood Green (Lab)]

He was ahead of his time.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

He was. We have heard some powerful, moving and challenging questions today from across the Room, and I thank all noble Lords who have contributed. The richness of this debate shows how important it is that we have the opportunity to mark International Women’s Day and highlight the wide range of challenges that disproportionately affect women and prevent them accessing the opportunities to help them thrive.

I will deal with one of the elephants in the room, which is not having this debate on the day that so many wanted it. I remember being asked about this in an Oral Question. I went to find out and am advised—I have no reason to disbelieve it—that the usual channels agreed time for the debate as soon as was possible. I will make the case, as much as I can, to have it on a better day.