Export Control (Amendment) (No. 3) Order 2011

Lord Young of Norwood Green Excerpts

Tuesday 7th June 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Thomas of Gresford]

My Lords, nothing can be quite as stomach-churning as hearing one’s client being sentenced to death—as I have—and to know that the system of appeals will then follow. I was discussing only at lunchtime today one case where my client was condemned to death in Hong Kong. He won his appeal. There was a second trial and he was acquitted, but he ended up being executed in China by having a bullet put in the back of his neck. It is something which—old Liberal or new Liberal Democrat—I and my party have opposed for a very long time and I am delighted that this order has been brought forward.

I hope that I shall not again have the experience that happened not so very long ago when I received a phone call from someone on death row in a Caribbean country telling me that they were building gallows outside his cell and that he was due to be executed on the following Monday—this being a Friday afternoon. Fortunately, on that occasion we were able to save him.

The death penalty is a disgusting punishment. It is contrary to Article 2 of the European convention and contrary to all human rights conventions throughout the world, and I am pleased that this order takes it further.

[Lord Young of Norwood Green]

My Lords, we have been round this statutory instrument track before but I congratulate the Minister on a comprehensive report. I am now a lot more knowledgeable about sodium thiopental and pancuronium bromide—clearly a word with which the Minister had trouble. It was a comprehensive report. I was not aware of the precise usage of these particular drugs and we welcome the fact that there is both a direct and indirect control. That is important.

I have one question before I conclude. In paragraph 8—the consultation outcome—it rather strangely says:

“Following a short general industry consultation, the trade between the UK and the US on these products appears to be negligible”.

Does “appears to be negligible” mean that they were not satisfied with the process of validation? If the Minister cannot answer today, I would welcome a response in writing.

We on this side share the abhorrence of the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, of the death penalty. He reminded us in graphic terms what it is like for individuals facing that fate, which is unfortunately still too common in many countries around the world. The fact that we can play a small but important role in ensuring that we do not contribute towards a practice that all of us in the House abhor is important. Apart from my one minor question, we, too, welcome this statutory instrument.

[Baroness Wilcox]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Thomas of Gresford for recounting his personal experiences as a distinguished lawyer on the subject of execution and I thank him for his support for the order. Yes, the noble Lord, Lord Young, and I have been round these statutory instruments before, but I am grateful to have his immediate support for this one. I apologise for my pronunciation of some of the drugs. I am not up on it—and I am very happy not to have been up on the names of those particular drugs.

As to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Young, about the words “appears to be negligible”, I have it here that there should be minimal if not zero legitimate trade in these drugs. Our consultation has shown that there is no trade. I am sorry, but my official could not understand what was written and I cannot read the reply, which is very embarrassing. I shall try again. It should be “minimal if not zero”; there is no trade.

I am sorry that I made such a fist of that when all I had to do was say that I hope I have dealt with the key points made by the noble Lord and that I commend the order to the Committee.