State of Extremism Report
Debate between Lord Woolley of Woodford and Lord Hanson of Flint(1 month, 2 weeks ago)
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Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)
My noble friend makes a very important point, and it is extremely important that we challenge the poison of online extremism that sometimes occurs. Existing legislation, particularly the Online Safety Act, empowers Ofcom to order the taking down of material that is damaging or extremist, and significant fines can be levied. However, we need to further examine how the online space is used to radicalise people, particularly those who, very often in their own bedrooms, are looking at such material, being sucked into an extremist pit—be it the right, Islamic extremism, or any other form of extremism—and groomed, in a sense, to undertake further activities. This is an extremely important issue that is difficult to challenge, but it is one the Government need to address.
Lord Woolley of Woodford (CB)
My Lords, I have some sympathy with the noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, when she talks about the importance of extremism criteria. How can we ensure objectivity and avoid politicisation of the term? In this House and the other House, we have seen the political winds propagating the false notion of two-tier policing, which is really divisive. Equally, in this House and the other House, we have heard politicians calling for more Black stop and search, when we are already disproportionately targeted. So criteria are important, and I urge the Minister to ensure objectivity in, and not the politicisation of, the process.
Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)
The Government do not accept the principle of two-tier policing: policing should be done according to the circumstances that a police officer faces. This is not about two-tier policing. We have embedded across government the 2024 definition of extremism and engagement principles to ensure a consistent understanding of extremism, and we are updating the 2024 engagement principles to ensure that public bodies understand that issue in a proper and effective way.
Police Accountability
Debate between Lord Woolley of Woodford and Lord Hanson of Flint(1 year, 9 months ago)
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Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)
I am grateful to the noble Earl for his welcome for the Statement. On the West Midlands Police, he will know that there are mechanisms in place to make reports to tackle any poor behaviour. Most police officers follow a code that is appropriate and proper, and they can be held to account. I am not aware of the case, having been in post for just four months, but if there are areas of concern, the noble Earl should follow the mechanisms of complaint. If he is unhappy with that, he can seek redress in other ways.
Lord Woolley of Woodford (CB)
My Lords, I do not want to add to the debate on the Chris Kaba incident, as a lot has been said in this House; however, I pay tribute to all officers who put their lives on the line for us on a daily basis. I want to talk about a more fundamental point that this House must not ignore. In Britain’s black communities, there is an all-time distrust in our policing. It is no surprise that people are outraged when they see, for example, the stop and search of the black middle-class couple Bianca Williams and Ricardo Dos Santos, who were wrenched from their car with a baby in the back, and after which the police officers had no charge to answer in many respects. If we are to police by consent, we must build trust, and that will take a lot of time and effort from everybody involved.
Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)
The noble Lord is absolutely right that policing is undertaken by consent. To have that consent, policing needs both to reflect and to understand the community. I have no problem with police officers stopping and searching individuals—that is part of the prevention of criminal activity—but they need to do so in a way that is conducive to consent and to community relations, while having full accountability and explaining why and how those activities have taken place. The noble Lord’s point about the disregard between members of the black community and the police is a source of deep sadness. Many of the people who were involved in, and have been killed by, some of this concerning behaviour were innocent people from the black community. Therefore, trust is a long-term measure. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary is trying to build a stronger mechanism of community policing, but I will certainly take on board the points the noble Lord mentioned, and we will reflect on how we can build that confidence in the community to ensure effective, proper policing.