Youth Unemployment

Lord Woolf Excerpts

Thursday 15th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Bates) (Con)]

I now call the next speaker, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf.

[Lord Woolf (CB) [V]]

[Inaudible.]

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Bates) (Con)]

We cannot hear the noble and learned Lord, so I shall call the next speaker, the noble Baroness, Lady Stroud.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, we will now recommence consideration of the Private Notice Question in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Baker, for a further three and a half minutes. I call the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf.

[Lord Woolf (CB) [V]]

I am grateful to your Lordships for dealing with the local difficulties. The point I emphasise is that, while everything I have heard about the immediate action that the Government are taking is encouraging, I am concerned about when things go wrong, as they will, and youngsters land up in the court system. What action do the Government propose to ensure that the harm already done is not aggravated by that experience?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

It is important that, when young people fall into the court system, they have good role models and mentors to keep them on the straight and narrow. As far as the DWP is concerned, our work coaches will be providing that support. I am not aware of what the Home Office is doing, but I am happy to find out and write to the noble and learned Lord.

Pensions Bill [HL]

Lord Woolf Excerpts

Tuesday 15th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Woolf]

My Lords, I shall speak about Part 4. I do so with some hesitation after hearing the very interesting and informative speech of my noble friend Lord Brooke, who indicated that, as his brother was a distinguished judge, it might not be right for him to take part, albeit that the judge had retired. I am afraid that I am in exactly the same position as his brother, but, having looked at the Bill, I do not think that I need take that action, though the House may regret that I reached that decision and, equally, be pleased that the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, did not take the opposite view. Having heard his speech, I am quite satisfied that what he had to say was much more entertaining than what I shall say. However, what I have to say is very important in relation to the administration of justice in this country, though I emphasise that the views that I am expressing are entirely my own and not those of any section or number of the judiciary.

The matter that causes me to rise is partly the fact that it is not until a judge such as myself has made pension contributions for 20 years that he will have the protection which the Bill provides. I rise also because one of my former judicial colleagues who is a Member of the House, the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, drew my attention to the assumptions made for Part 4. Those assumptions fairly draw attention to the risks involved in what is proposed. They do so in the following terms:

“Key assumptions are … that this measure will result in no behavioural response by the judiciary (e.g. no negative impacts on judicial recruitment, retention or performance)”.

That is a statement that I wholly accept in relation to performance, but I am concerned about its claim that the measure will have no impact on judicial recruitment or retention. The impact assessment continues:

“Key Risks are: … that the actual impacts of this measure are as yet unknown, as are the cumulative effects of existing and future policy decisions about judges’ pay and pensions – such as the current pay freeze for judges … that the assumed behavioural response might not apply and the measures may lead to negative impacts on judicial recruitment, retention and performance”.

The assumption, if it were right, would be very reassuring, but, on the basis of my experience as Lord Chief Justice only a few years ago, I sincerely question the assumption about retention and recruitment. That is the matter on which I want to focus.

The noble Lord, Lord Freud, was absolutely right to stress the importance of fairness. There is an aspect of what is proposed which has a real degree of unfairness about it because of the particular situation of the judiciary. Perhaps I should preface what I am about to say by stressing just how important is the quality of our judiciary to the administration of justice in this country.

The quality of our judiciary puts this country in a very enviable position. I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, raised questions as to what I might say, but I shall say it notwithstanding her comments. We have a judiciary which is admired around the globe; its standard is such that this country is looked to to give a lead in judicial administration in many parts of the world. I referred earlier to Lord Justice Brooke, my former colleague and the noble Lord’s kinsman. He, for example, spends a great deal of his time in retirement helping the judiciary of many countries in the new democracies which find it difficult to adapt to the changed circumstances which now exist. In addition, in other jurisdictions, so valued is the judiciary of this country that it is invited to create courts. I was such a beneficiary and created a court in Qatar. This is a singular compliment to the judiciary of this jurisdiction.

It is very important—this cannot be stressed too strongly—that we do not unintentionally affect the standards of our judiciary. One of its unique qualities is that the senior judges on the High Court Bench—who are an important part of our system—are recruited from those who have been at the practising Bar. When they take an appointment they make a great financial sacrifice to do so, and there will come a stage when they cannot be satisfied that the sacrifice involved will be a safe one so far as their families are concerned. So far, any change in their conditions would not apply retrospectively, which is why the 20-year provision is mentioned in the Bill.

However, that is of no assistance to judges once they have taken an appointment. As the Minister will be aware, in this country, those taking judicial appointments are unable to go back to their former profession as barristers. That means that if the terms are changed after they have taken an appointment, they will not be able to regain the former high earnings that they admittedly had before they became a judge. I realise that members of the judiciary cannot expect sympathy for their position, but the judges are entitled to be treated fairly and to have confidence that, once they have taken an appointment, the rules of the game will not change adversely towards them.

The Government must give the greatest attention to this because, in parts of the jurisdiction, there are difficulties today in recruiting High Court judges which did not exist in the past. From my experience as Chief Justice, I can tell the House that the attraction of the Bench to certain sections of the Bar is nothing like it used to be. I am relieved that, so far, that has not affected the quality of those recruited to the Bench. I accept that our judges today are as good, if not better, than they have ever been during my legal career. It is important that we do not do anything that puts that situation at risk. If we continue to chip away at the position of the judiciary, there will come a tipping point—although it is very difficult to identify when it will arrive—so the Government should think very carefully whether it is wise not to take some appropriate and fair steps to protect the position of the judiciary.

As it happens, I read in the Times today of events in a celebrated case in Moscow, where there has been some question as to the propriety of what happened. The judge in the case was summoned to the senior court in Moscow, where a contributor quoted in the article reports her impression that he was going to get his orders for the conduct of a trial that was yet to take place. I am happy to say that no judge in this jurisdiction would respond to such an invitation, were they to get one. One of the difficulties if you are Lord Chief Justice is that you can give no orders to any judge as to what they do or how they do it in any individual case. The independence of the judiciary is absolutely critical—and it works because of the calibre of person who is recruited.

For those reasons, I urge the Government to look very carefully at what they are proposing to do and make sure that they are not taking a risk with our very fortunate position of being able to regard the judiciary as one that displays the proper degree of independence and of excellence.