Lord Winston
Main Page: Lord Winston (Labour - Life peer)Medicinal Labelling Bill [HL]
Lord Winston Excerpts
Lord Winston (Lab)
My Lords, first, I am so pleased to see the noble Baroness sitting on the Front Bench, but so sad that the noble Earl, Lord Howe, is not fit at the moment. We agree that he is a most loved and respected Member of this House and wish him well. We fully understand that it is far more important that he recovers completely to good health than that he deal with the issues that I want to raise in the Bill. I know that the noble Baroness will give an excellent answer to the questions that I will raise. Secondly, it is rather sad that the Bill is being read on a Friday. A large number of Members of the House have told me personally that they support it, and many of my scientific friends, who are working, have been unable to come in on a Friday but have certainly been very supportive.
Why do we need a Bill of this kind? There is no question but that animal research in the United Kingdom has been considerably under threat repeatedly for a long time. Experimenters such as me who hold licences often find it difficult to do research which we regard as an ethical necessity. The biggest single area where animal research is needed is in the development of pharmaceuticals and, to a lesser extent, the development of vaccines. It is true, of course, that with reverse vaccinology and the ability to use genomic medicine, we can often design vaccines on a piece of paper, without the need for such research, but even there, vaccines have always been tested using at least eggs, so anyone using a vaccine is effectively benefiting from that research. As your Lordships will be aware, in terms of public health, the area in which we often lag behind in this country, despite the excellence of our research, vaccines are one of the most important means of protection of ourselves, our children and the population. They will always be particularly important with the rising risk of pandemic infections across the globe. Indeed, many people feel that that is a more serious threat than that of climate change.
It is a fact that virtually every drug, every medicine that we take, with the possible exception of aspirin and digitalis for the heart, which is hardly ever used nowadays, was developed as a result of animal research. The pharmaceutical industry in this country is one of our most important and critical industries. It is under considerable threat. We have seen a diminution of the pharmaceutical companies in this country. For example, it is very sad for the United Kingdom that Pfizer has moved offshore its research establishment in Sandwich, in Kent. We have lost a great deal of R&D, which is important for that work, and, with it, the trials that might be done.
I fear that one issue is that although the pharmaceutical companies desperately need that work, they have been very reluctant to put their heads above the parapet. Despite repeated suggestions to the Association of British Pharmaceutical Industries that the industry should engage the public much more readily to say why that research is necessary, on the whole it has been reluctant to make any waves which might cause more public concern about what is going on with drugs. I have to say that in medicine in general, as I am sure that your Lordships are aware, a huge number of developments could not have been possible without animal research. I am sure that everyone in the Chamber agrees that it would have been unthinkable for us to have transferred a human embryo to the uterus of an infertile patient without first making sure that an embryo transferred in the mouse and then in other mammals was not made abnormal by the culture in vitro. That is a given and we accept it and benefit from it in all sorts of ways. Medicine has always benefited from that.
The work that is done in this field is very strictly regulated by the Home Office. It is increasingly difficult to obtain a licence. I have just had a letter from the Home Office to renew my licence and I am told by my institution that unless I sign up very quickly for that process it will take me at least six months to get a licence. That is a problem for research in universities, particularly when a PhD student wants to start a project.
Of course, we all espouse the idea of the three Rs—reduction, refinement and replacement of animals—but the truth is that the figures show that the number of transgenic mice used in research is increasing, and has been steadily over some years, as it must continue to do. A transgenic mouse is a mouse that has been genetically modified in a humane way, usually by tampering with the embryo, although there are other ways to do it. These mice are important models used in the drug industry and every research establishment where animals are used in biology. The need for animal research in drugs will probably increase rather than decrease. Often we do not state that clearly enough.
Let me give one example. The most successful area in drug development at the moment is unquestionably in the treatment of cancer. It is a fact that at least one-third of us in this Chamber will eventually develop cancer as we age—unless we are thrown out of the Chamber in due course by a cull. The incidence of cancer will rise. As a result of genomic medicine, we are now able to make targeted therapies that are specific to the individual genome of that particular cancer.
As we go through life and as we age, from the egg through to the final stages of life, cell division results and more and more mutations. There are at least 100,000 mutations believed to be responsible for cancer in different cells. So far, the drug companies have managed to manufacture and target therapies for about 297 mutations. They are greatly accorded but in fact they do not work particularly well because we need to do more research. However, they often work better than any other therapy, and of course they are much more humane to the patient because the side effects are much more controlled; they do not cause the severe injury that patients suffer from. This is a very important example of where mouse models will be essential in medicine and in drug companies in future.
In my view, a packet that is clearly labelled so that the public understand that animal research is necessary for the development of the drug that they are taking or the vaccine that they are using is really important as a part of public debate, and as a recognition that this research is not only necessary but that it is done properly and humanely and is entirely ethical. The alternatives, I think, are not.
What are those alternatives? Cell culture has been posited but it does not work because it does not have the intact animal, the cell signalling is quite different in cell cultures and we cannot replace the sort of work that we do in physiology by culturing cells. Computer modelling has also been posited but is a way off what is required. Organ culture is slightly better, but often the best way of doing organ culture might well be with modified organs from animals, which would of course require animal research where we had modified the genes in those organs so that they could mimic what was going on. For example, the piece of research that I am doing at Imperial College involves modifying kidneys, livers and hearts so that we can potentially look at organs that have been humanised—for example, from the pig. That area will be increasingly important, as xenotransplantation might possibly be in due course.
I am afraid that we have failed to recognise just how humane our laws actually are. Last night I got home at about 1.30 am from a visit to Keele University, whose medical school uses animal research. The vice-chancellor said, “Of course, we keep quiet about our animal house. It has only small animals”. However, every institution should be saying that these animal houses are essential to the progress of the research that is needed for humanity. At Imperial College, where I work, there is a very large animal facility, but pretty well every university that has biological research going on must and does use animal models, as does the entire pharmaceutical industry. It makes sense that we are open about that, but for far too long we have sheltered behind the parapet because we have been frightened of threats. My friend Colin Blakemore has had firebomb threats; indeed, so have I in the past. However, although I am in the public eye and am known to be doing animal research, in the past few years I have not seen any evidence of antagonism from the public. That openness is an advantage, because if you do it properly you will be trusted.
What are the disadvantages of a Bill such as this? First, there is the question of what the attitude of the drug companies might be. Will this be costly to add to the packet? Given that, for example, for a cancer drug it might cost £600 million to £900 million to develop a single targeted molecule, it does not seem unreasonable to put a message on the packet for a few extra coppers. So why should the drug companies not do that? If you talk to scientists at these drug companies, which I have done in various companies throughout the country, they universally applaud this measure; they think that it is a good thing to be considered. What about patients? Would it actually prevent them taking their medication? I do not think so. We eat meat but people do not destroy butchers’ shops. In fact, when you think about it, animal farming is a good deal less humane than the restrictive and thoroughly humane work done in laboratories looking at animal research. Indeed, those noble Lords who have visited an abattoir will know full well how unpleasant that is compared with the cleanliness and scrupulousness of how we conduct our work with animals—for example, in a university.
The issue is therefore not only the attitude of patients, who I do not believe would present a problem, but also the attitude of researchers. In my view, it is very important for young people not to feel that the work they are doing is reprehensible. Noble Lords may not always understand this, not being in that community, but it is amazing that so many researchers who I have had as junior staff have felt very threatened—for example, by authorities who argue that their work is reprehensible or unethical. For example, I do not want to rail against the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority, but it is extraordinary how many of my staff were reluctant to work with human embryos because they felt that somehow that work was not regarded as being proper and appropriate. That is certainly true of animal research.
The Bill is being introduced because I believe that in our society we need more transparency in, and recognition of, the need for this valuable activity, which is essential for human health and in my view will remain so in the future. I beg to move.
Lord Winston
My Lords, I am very grateful to all Members of the House who have been kind enough to speak in this debate. I am not entirely convinced by the arguments that I have heard; I will need to read the Minister’s response to my Motion in more detail before I make a considered reply to it. I am a little unhappy with my noble friend on the Front Bench on this side, who seemed to imply that it is better not to discuss things that should be open and transparent. That is a real risk here. If animal research is being used, we should state it clearly; that is a very important ethical consideration. To know that will not put people off taking their drugs; there is no evidence for that.
The noble Lord, Lord Willis, made a very cogent point about the support or lack of it in some aspects of the Department of Health, and the concern. The Department of Health has not, at the moment, shown the right way forward. It has certainly not been helpful to people such as myself, who do this research and are in the firing line. Far too often we have seen evidence that, for example, companies that supply or transport animals have been under great threat because they have not been thoroughly supported in the way they should have been.
It is important that this measure is considered seriously. I very much take the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Willis, with his usual accuracy, about the need for research about public opinion. Governments do not do that very well. It is, for example, rather shocking that social science is not very prevalent in the Department of Health. We should think about that very clearly, along with the assessment of these issues.
I am obviously very grateful to my noble friend Lord Turnberg. Both he and the noble Lord, Lord Willis, have spoken from the aspect of the medical research charities, which do such valuable work in supporting the sort of things that we are trying to do. I am very grateful for this debate; I do not intend to detain the House any longer on a Friday afternoon, as it now is. I ask the House to give the Bill a Second Reading.