Higher Education Funding
Debate between Lord Willetts and Stephen Williams
Mr Willetts
What we just heard from the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) was a classic old Labour attack, when all it can do is complain about cuts and make its own uncosted and indiscriminate public spending pledges. Last week we heard from the shadow Business, Innovation and Skills team that they did not approve of what we are doing on regional development agencies. They want to spend more on RDAs. Today we hear that they want to spend more through HEFCE on universities. How would they pay for it? What is the costing of that? Are we supposed to cut the science budget, which we are protecting so that we can invest in our future? Are we supposed to cut apprenticeships, which we are increasing by 50,000, or is it just a general belief that public spending can rise, from the party that brought us the fiscal crisis that we are having to tackle?
Even with the fiscal crisis that we face, we are nevertheless able to produce proposals that are progressive and recognise that there is a continuing role for Government. It remains the case that of every £100 that Government loan to students, just as with the previous Government, we accept that we will not get back £28 because it is a necessary subsidy for poorer students and people who have intermittent earnings. We have improved the maintenance package. As part of our Government’s commitment to our universities, we have secured a ring-fence for science and research spending, much of which money will go to our universities.
The hon. Gentleman asked specifically about student choice. I thought his point about student choice got to the heart of the difference between us in the coalition and the Opposition. He says, “You can’t trust students to choose.” We say, “Of course, we trust students to choose, but we are committed to more information, better information, advice and guidance, and proper careers advice because we want to see students driving the system.” That is what we believe in, and students will know that the Opposition do not trust them.
The hon. Gentleman asked about interest rates. The higher interest rate of the retail prices index plus 3% will go into financing the system as a whole, but it is a more favourable interest rate than anyone would be able to secure on the open market for a loan of the sort that is being offered—an unsecured loan that does not have to be repaid if the borrower’s income falls below £21,000.
What was missing from the hon. Gentleman’s speech was any clear Labour alternative. He announced that he was against this policy, but he did not explain what his policy was. Surely we are at least entitled to know whether he agrees with his own leader. The Leader of the Opposition—I quote from only 14 October this year—said:
“I do favour a graduate tax. I said that during the campaign and that remains my view . . . I am someone who believes in the graduate tax.”
That is the policy of the Leader of the Opposition. As for the shadow Chancellor, he has a rather different view. Also in the past few weeks he said:
“I like the two lads”—
that is, the right hon. Members for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) and for Morley and Outwood (Ed Balls)—
“dearly, but I can’t understand why they are pushing the Graduate Tax and even going further in suggesting the introduction of tuition fees was one of the things we got wrong. It wasn’t. . . It was one of the things we got right.”
If Labour cannot even resolve a fundamental disagreement between the shadow Chancellor and the leader of their party, why should we take what it says on this subject remotely seriously?
Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD)
I thank the Minister and the Secretary of State for working constructively together to construct a graduate contribution scheme that has many progressive elements in it and is a much fairer system than was left behind by the last Labour Government, especially for students who study part-time. But the Minister knows that my concern, and that of my colleagues, has always been to make sure that students from poor backgrounds are not put off accessing the best universities in our country. Will he confirm that the access arrangements that he outlined will be rightly demanding of universities, but will be transparent and easy to understand for prospective students?
Mr Willetts
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. He is correct that part of the process whereby the coalition developed these policies was a recognition of the importance of improving access to some of our most prominent universities. We are absolutely committed to what he proposes.