Points of Order
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow(11 years, 9 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
That is fair enough. The hon. Gentleman has raised his point and I have given him his answer. I hope that is clear.
Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. My apologies to you and to Members of the House. I neglected to draw attention to my entry in the register. I am the author of a book on corruption at News Corporation.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I am familiar with his book and have myself read it. He has put it on the record. [Interruption.] The Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, the hon. Member for Wantage (Mr Vaizey), is requesting a copy. I do not think that the purpose of the exercise was to increase sales of the book, but that might be the inadvertent consequence.
Phone Hacking
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow(13 years, 4 months ago)
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Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)
I, like many Members of the House, have run an organisation. Sometimes in organisations things go wrong and there are faults that might not be the fault of the person running it—but it is certainly their responsibility, and responsibility goes right to the top. Rebekah Brooks is responsible for what has happened. If she does not resign, the person above her should understand that it is his responsibility to—
Mr Speaker
Order. I respect the hon. Gentleman’s sincerity and integrity, but interventions must be brief from now on, as otherwise we will find it very difficult to make progress.
Mr Watson
I fully agree with the hon. Gentleman, and thank him for his brave contribution. I believe that Rebekah Brooks was not only responsible for wrongdoing, but knew about it. The evidence in the paper that she edited contradicts her statements that she knew nothing about unlawful behaviour. Take the edition that she edited on 14 April 2002, which reveals that the News of the World had information from Milly Dowler’s phone. In other words, they knew about the messages on her phone. They wrote that there was
“left a message on her voicemail after the 13-year-old vanished at 4pm on March 21. On march 27th, six days after Milly went missing in Walton-on-Thames, Surrey, the employment agency appears to have phoned her mobile.”
It was a central part of the paper’s story that it had evidence from a telephone—evidence that it could get only from breaking into that phone at the time. The story that Rebekah Brooks was far from the Dowler events is simply not believable when her own newspaper wrote about the information that it had gained from that phone.
I want to inform the House of further evidence that suggests that Rebekah Brooks knew of the unlawful tactics of the News of the World as early as 2002, despite all her denials yesterday.
Rebekah Brooks was present at a meeting with Scotland Yard when police officers pursuing a murder investigation provided her with evidence that her newspaper was interfering with the pursuit of justice. They gave her the name of another senior executive at News International, Alex Marunchak. At the meeting, which included Dick Fedorcio of the Metropolitan police, she was told that News of the World staff were guilty of interference and party to using unlawful means to attempt to discredit a police officer and his wife.
Rebekah Brooks was told of actions by people whom she paid to expose and discredit David Cook and his wife Jackie Haines, so that Mr Cook would be prevented from completing an investigation into a murder. News International was paying people to interfere with police officers and was doing so on behalf of known criminals. We know now that News International had entered the criminal underworld.
Rebekah Brooks cannot deny being present at that meeting when the actions of people whom she paid were exposed. She cannot deny now being warned that under her auspices unlawful tactics were used for the purpose of interfering with the pursuit of justice. She cannot deny that one of her staff, Alex Marunchak, was named and involved. She cannot deny either that she was told by the police that her own paper was using unlawful tactics, in that case to help one of her lawbreaking investigators. This, in my view, shows that her culpability goes beyond taking the blame as head of the organisation; it is about direct knowledge of unlawful behaviour. Was Mr Marunchak dismissed? No. He was promoted.
Points of Order
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. Whether the Home Secretary chooses to make a statement on the matter or not is a judgment for her, and it is not something in relation to which I have any formal power. As he will be aware, I, too, was conscious of the fixture of the individual in question. He was to address a meeting in the House, which was perfectly orderly so long as he was not a person of concern, and was freely at large and legitimately so. When that situation changed, the arrangement whereby he would address the meeting also changed. All I would say is that the hon. Gentleman has raised an important point. I know that he has sought communication with the Home Office and at least an explanation of the situation. That approach seems to me to be entirely reasonable, and I hope that his legitimate curiosity on this matter will not for long remain unsatisfied.
Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In the past few minutes, it has been revealed by The Guardian newspaper that Milly Dowler’s phone was hacked by private investigators working for the News of the World. The company subsequently revealed the information to the Surrey police, who were investigating the matter. As well as being a despicable and evil act that will shock parents up and down the land to the very core, it also strongly suggests that Parliament was misled in the press standards inquiry held by the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport in 2010. Is it possible to know how we can address that matter?
Mr Speaker
My response to the hon. Gentleman is threefold. First, the first I heard of this was when he courteously sidled up to the Chair to mention it to me fewer than five minutes ago. Secondly, my initial procedural advice to the hon. Gentleman is that he might wish to take the question up with the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, which he judges to have been misled or misinformed in this matter. Thirdly, in view of the gravity of the issue he has raised, the detail of which I was not previously familiar with, I can say only that it will have been heard by Ministers on the Treasury Bench and if they judge in the circumstances that some sort of public response is desirable—as they might—I hope that that response will be made on the Floor of the House of Commons before it is made anywhere else. I hope that that is helpful.
Points of Order
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow
Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. May I ask whether you have had notification of a statement from the Government on delaying the decision on the BSkyB takeover bid in the light of the criminal trial just being launched involving computer hacking and contractors with News International?
Mr Speaker
I have received no indication of any such statement. That is an explicit response to the hon. Gentleman. However, I am grateful to him for his point of order.
BSkyB
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow
Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Members on both sides of the House were disappointed that a statement of such importance was taken in the middle of the afternoon, but out of respect for our Ulster Unionist friends we have tolerated that decision. What I believe is intolerable is the fact that the Secretary of State saw fit to parade around TV studios before making the statement to the House. Has he availed himself of the opportunity to ask whether he can apologise to you, Mr Speaker, and to the House for this discourtesy?
Mr Speaker
The short answer to the hon. Gentleman’s question is no. The timing of the statement is not quite what Members had expected, which was evident during earlier exchanges in the presence of the Leader of the House. The circumstances that led to the timing of this statement were explained: there is a balance of considerations, and it was felt important to protect the Democratic Unionist party’s half-day debate. When I became aware of the situation, it seemed to me that such protection must be guaranteed. I confess, however, that I had rather expected—and had indeed been led to expect—that although announcements to the stock exchange would be made, no media interviews would be undertaken before a statement was made to the House. I was led to expect that and the Secretary of State knows very well that I was led to expect that, so the fact that interviews have taken place is a notable disappointment and it might be regarded by some as a discourtesy to the House. In those circumstances, I feel sure that the Secretary of State will want to be aware of that discourtesy and will take the opportunity to express his regrets to the House.
Points of Order
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow(13 years, 10 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. I say to the hon. Gentleman that these are at least in part matters of debate and argument. The point has been made very clearly by the shadow Home Secretary, expressing concern not merely on her behalf but on that of many others. The Home Secretary has replied to that point.
Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. We hear serious allegations that two former Prime Ministers were concerned about phone hacking. Have you had notice of a statement from the Home Office to see what steps it is taking to establish whether the current Prime Minister and his Chancellor were also victims of News International’s phone hacking?
Mr Speaker
I have received no such notification and the hon. Gentleman has put his point on the record. I know that he and the House will appreciate that I have a responsibility to protect the important business that will follow these points of order.
Points of Order
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow(13 years, 10 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. It is for Ministers to define their responsibilities and to communicate the facts relating thereto. The matter was raised today, and the Leader of the House offered a reply, but the hon. Gentleman will know that I am not responsible for the content of that reply. It is a responsibility of Ministers. I feel sure that the point will have been heard by Members on the Treasury Bench, and that it will be communicated as appropriate to Ministers.
Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Standing Order No. 139, on the powers of the Administration Committee, allows the direction of Officers of the House to service Select Committees. This morning, during a debate in the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, of which I am a member, we did not know the ministerial policy areas for which we were responsible. If the Government cannot decide which Ministers are in what Departments or who is responsible for policy, can the Administration Committee aid Select Committees with that?
Mr Speaker
I think I can say without fear of contradiction that it is a matter that requires clarification. I hope such will soon be provided to the satisfaction of the hon. Gentleman and others.
Points of Order
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow(13 years, 11 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
No, I have received no such indication. I shall take this as a pre-Christmas point of order of the New Forest East genre, and we will leave it at that for today.
With reference to a point that has already been made, let me just say—I am grateful to the Leader of the House for this—that I should perhaps have reminded the House that a written ministerial statement is being made today on the subject of contaminated blood. I simply put that on the record.
Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. That same Cabinet Minister has also said that the Prime Minister is seeking to abolish the winter fuel allowance. Have you had a request for an emergency debate so that the position can be clarified, in order to prevent millions of pensioners from living in fear this winter?
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow(13 years, 11 months ago)
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Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
I see on my copy of the Liberal Democrat “Whip” for this week that all Lib Dem Ministers have been instructed to visit Oldham East and Saddleworth three times before 13 January. Will the Chief Secretary to the Treasury tell me on what days he intends to visit, and will he take the Business Secretary with him, so that they can outline their “Maoist revolution”?
Mr Speaker
Order. I assume that the hon. Gentleman is requesting a visit in which the Minister will talk about the policies of the Government.
Prisoners’ Right to Vote
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow(14 years ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. It may be tempting—or otherwise—for the Minister to look behind him from time to time, but he must address the House.
Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
The Minister has my sympathy, because he is on a sticky wicket today—if I may say so, he is doing a good job—and the truth is that the Deputy Prime Minister is on the run. He should be there answering to this House today. His junior is doing a better job than he could, but he should be here. On a specific point, may I ask whether it is the Minister’s personal view that people should have the vote where they are interned, or that they should have the choice of which constituency to vote in?
Schools Funding
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow(14 years, 4 months ago)
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Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
Mr Speaker, I can assure you that there is nothing synthetic about the anger felt in Sandwell. The pupils in Sandwell have seen what the new politics is: they have seen the attempt to sneak out a half-spun, half-apology on the BBC, and they have seen the Secretary of State come here humiliated for the second time this week to apologise to them. He can embarrass himself, he can disgrace his party, but what is intolerable is that he has cynically raised the hopes of hundreds and thousands of families. You’re a miserable pipsqueak of a man, Gove. You have—
Mr Speaker
Order. Before we go any further, I must ask the hon. Gentleman to withdraw the term that I think he used. I think I heard the term, “pipsqueak”. The hon. Gentleman must withdraw that term. It is not appropriate—[Interruption.] Order. I know what I am doing. Members should leave this matter to me.
Points of Order
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman may ask that. I do not know the answer, but there is no breach of order if a Member comes to raise a point of order about someone else without notifying that person first. The hon. Gentleman is a very courteous man—I will have known him for 27 years in October of this year—and he might well expect that as a matter of courtesy there would be advance notification, but there is no obligation to notify. He has put his views on the record and contributed enthusiastically to our exchanges.
Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. As you know, a number of schools in my constituency have been affected by this misleading information. I tried to phone the Secretary of State yesterday, but he was not courteous enough to return my call. I heard Mr Andrew Neil announce that the Secretary of State was going to apologise for this matter and I assumed that he would do so to the House. Do we have any remedy to try to ascertain what the Secretary of State is doing? I have already cancelled a meeting to come here and it would be unfair and discourteous if he made Members cancel any other meetings.
Mr Speaker
There are a couple of points to make in response to the hon. Gentleman. The first is that the Secretary of State is an extremely busy person and it is not for me to comment on the nature or frequency of telephone conversations that he has. I can say only for myself that if the hon. Gentleman were to telephone me, I would always be delighted to hear from him and would regard it as a matter of some priority to have a telephone conversation with him. Secondly, I think that I have made the overall position very clear and people on the Treasury Bench will have heard it. What I am saying, in short, is that if the Secretary of State has something to say to Members, he should say it here. If he has something to say to me, he could usefully say it here and it would be a jolly good thing if he came to the House to make a statement at a suitable time—that is, at or shortly after 7 o’clock.
Points of Order
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I do not think that anyone would want to downgrade the significance of what has taken place, or the importance of informing the House of the details of those who have perished. The Prime Minister, on a number of different occasions and at different times of the week, has given the House such details, and I know that he has done so in all solemnity. I do not think it would be right for me to add anything further at this stage, but I am happy to reflect on the hon. Gentleman’s point, and I know that others will do so as well.
Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. Young people in my constituency were reassured yesterday when they were told that the schools there would not be affected by the Building Schools for the Future cuts. I have now been informed that the organisation Partnerships for Schools has contradicted the statement that the Secretary of State made to the House, and that Manor, George Salter and Menzies schools face an uncertain future. People make mistakes, Mr Speaker, but is it not unreasonable for the Secretary of State not to put the matter right? If he is indeed wrong and Partnerships for Schools is right, those young people in my constituency deserve an apology for having their hopes raised and then cruelly dashed 24 hours later.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order, and also for giving me advance notice of it. He will understand that I am reluctant to be drawn into the detail of the debate, but I will say this to him. As I have already indicated, statements to the House should be both timely and accurate. Obviously, if something said to the House is misleading—that is a strict and tough test—it should be corrected; if any apology is required—I do not know whether it is—I hope that it will be forthcoming.
I did comment yesterday on the difficulties for the House of learning about detailed announcements when a Secretary of State possesses full details and the House does not. I made very clear my view that in the name both of courtesy and of effective scrutiny, if a Minister making a statement possesses a list, he or she has a duty to put that list on the Table of the House or in the Vote Office or both, at the start, not the end, of the statement.
It may also be helpful if I say to the hon. Gentleman and the House both that his point will have been heard on the Treasury Bench—I am delighted to see that the Leader of the House is present—and that there will be further opportunities to take up the matter, not least during oral questions to the Department for Education next Monday, 12 July. I have not, however, been notified of any further statement to be made on this subject today.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Lord Watson of Wyre Forest and John Bercow(14 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. I know that the Chief Secretary will want to stick to the narrow subject of external consultants.
Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)
Is Andy Coulson a consultant? How much are you paying him?