Lord Tyler
Main Page: Lord Tyler (Liberal Democrat - Life peer)Cities and Local Government Devolution Bill [HL]
Lord Tyler Excerpts
Lord Shipley
Amendment 47 takes us to the heart of an issue that we have talked a great deal about over the three days in Committee. We have discussed the creation of one-party states; the need for accountability and legitimacy, and for properly functioning overview and scrutiny structures; and the need to ensure that the public back devolution and the powers and responsibilities that come with it.
We have expressed many concerns in Committee about the creation of the one-party state. One solution to the problem is to introduce proportional representation, using the single transferable vote, into local government. It would strengthen governance, increase transparency and improve accountability because there would be more opposition councillors. That might change the membership of the combined authority and would certainly alter the make-up of overview and scrutiny committees.
Amendment 47 would prevent a one-party state from arising. As more has been devolved in recent years across the UK, so the powers devolved have been accompanied by changes to more proportional voting systems. As more political parties exist and grow stronger, so our governance structures need to reflect that. Proportional representation enables that. They have it in local elections in Scotland. In England, five parties have significant public support in local elections and it is right that the electors who support those parties all feel represented. A system of proportional voting helps not only in delivering fairer overall representation but also, through STV, enables voters to choose an individual as their preference within their party of choice rather than simply having to vote for the candidate selected by that party in their ward.
Earlier, I mentioned Scotland, where the single transferable vote was used in council elections in 2007 and 2012. In Scotland there are no longer uncontested council seats and there are no one-party states that do not reflect that party’s share of the vote. In England and Wales there are more than 100 councils where one party has more than two-thirds of all seats. Scotland has none. In England in 2011, 24 councils saw 10% or more of their seats uncontested. Scotland has not had an uncontested election since STV was introduced in 2007.
I want this Bill to succeed in its broad strategic ambitions but I do not think it will without public support for the governance structure. Hence our concern that local government, combined authorities and elected mayors should all command public support. The elected mayor in this Bill is to be elected by the supplementary vote system. But more broadly, the use of the single transferable vote system in elections would help us to achieve public legitimacy and accountability in the structure of governance. It will prevent a one-party state arising and it will ensure adequate overview and scrutiny. It will almost certainly increase voter turnout because everyone’s vote will count. This amendment is a solution to the problems that we have identified with the democratic legitimacy of the combined authority structure. I hope it will command the Government’s support. I beg to move.
Lord Tyler (LD)
My Lords, I am delighted to support my noble friend. In recent years, Parliament has been prepared to find fairer voting systems for everybody else: for Northern Ireland, for Scotland and for Wales, and even for the European Parliament. But of course the House of Commons has been a step too far. That does not mean that your Lordships’ House should not look carefully, in the context of this debate, at the failure of the present system to provide effective and representative local government. In recent weeks a number of Labour Peers, who have previously been opposed to electoral reform, have expressed support for it. I was taken by the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Cormack—I am sorry he is not still here—who said in our debate on 15 June, expressing some support for my views, that,
“at the beginning of a new Parliament, there is a strong case for a commission or committee of both Houses—I am a great believer in committees of both Houses—to look at our electoral system thoroughly, dispassionately and in an unbiased way to see how we can improve it and make it clearer and more consistent, with the fundamental aim of engaging the interest of people, particularly young people and those who do not necessarily have a long history of residence in this country”.—[Official Report, 15.6.15; col. 1061.]
The noble Baroness, Lady Royall, made a similar point about disengagement and re-engagement a few minutes ago.
Local elections in England and Wales are so badly distorted by the system, as my noble friend said, that, in theory at least, we have to look carefully at what they are doing to the confidence that our fellow citizens have in the system. But we now have hard evidence of what can be done by an improvement to the system, as my noble friend has said. Thanks to Dr Lewis Baston, who has undertaken an analysis of the two rounds of STV votes in Scotland, there has been a considerable increase in fair-minded assessment. Under the STV system in 2007 and 2012 for local authorities in Scotland, the immediate increase in the number of those who actually had an impact on the result was dramatic, going from 40% or 45% to 75%. In Dr Baston’s terms, these are “happy voters”—they have had a result. Even more significantly, he goes on to show that if second and subsequent preferences are effective, the percentage of those who are satisfied can rise to 90%. There will be control freaks, in all parties, who take the view that this is dangerous territory because it gives so much choice to the electorate. Frankly, I think it is the consumers of the local democratic process who we should be interested in. It is clear that they are extremely satisfied with the way in which it now operates in Scotland. When he or she votes they get a much more representative outcome and, I think, a resultant quality of service and accountability. From an elector’s point of view, this is surely the moment we have to move on.
I draw your Lordships’ attention to the fact that a large number of the cities, boroughs and counties in England where a majority has been given, on a minority vote, to one particular group or party for a very long time have been the ones that have failed. That is why it is extremely important that we listen to those who have identified these problems in England and Wales and we should look particularly at the evidence given by the Electoral Reform Society to us—all those involved in this Bill—that there is a real danger of a rise in cronyism, petty corruption, undue secrecy of decision-making and widespread disenchantment with the whole political process. Unless we make some change to this Bill, that will extend to the constituent authorities and the combined authorities under the Bill.
Lord Beecham
Would the noble Lord like to comment on the situation in the Greater Manchester Combined Authority, where most of the councils—Manchester, Wigan, whose leader is no longer in the Chamber but is a Member of this House, and indeed Trafford—have been of a particular political colour for very many years, and yet they are the origin of the Bill that is before us?
Lord Tyler
Whether or not they are the origin of the Bill that is before us, I think the noble Lord will recognise that there are authorities in the country—he and I could both name them—where the fact that one party has controlled it for ever and a day without effective scrutiny or opposition has not been conducive to good governance. Again, as Robin Cook said—and I worked very closely with him—good governance requires effective scrutiny and good opposition.
Baroness Hollis of Heigham (Lab)
My Lords, is that not the privilege of the local electorate? If they choose to return a particular colour of politics, that is their choice. Is the noble Lord not saying that he would overrule that choice in the name of some abstract transparency that is easily available through other means?
Lord Tyler
My Lords, that is nonsense. The noble Baroness should simply look at what has happened in Scotland. We now have a practical example. There no longer are these one-party states in Scotland. There are now far more effective local authorities as a result.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)
My Lords, I declare that I am an elected member of Lewisham Council in south London. This has been an interesting debate but changing the voting system to a form of PR is not something that I am in favour of, although this would be only for the election of councillors in England.
In 2011, we did of course have a referendum on moving to a new system for elections to the House of Commons. The system put forward was AV. I know that that is not a proportional system but it was the system agreed by the then coalition Government, put to a referendum of the voters of the United Kingdom and rejected. There is nothing that I have heard in this debate or elsewhere that makes me think there has been a change in the heart of the voters in England and that what people want is to elect their councillors by single transferable vote, having stuck with first past the post elections to Westminster only three years ago. I did, however, agree with the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, when he talked of looking at governance structures from time to time. I think that that is right. That does not take me down the road of moving to single transferable votes for the election of councillors.
There are issues, as the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, referred to, about the number of voting systems that we use to elect people to various public bodies, positions and Parliaments in the United Kingdom. Where a body is elected by a proportional system, it should remain a proportional system, but I would like to reduce the number of systems we use. It is very confusing for the voter to elect people when we are using, at least, first past the post, single transferable vote, closed list systems, top-up lists and the supplementary vote. Supplementary vote is one of the worst voting systems we use. I have been to many counts where the supplementary vote system was used. There are often a considerable number of spoilt ballot papers because people put the X in the second column instead of the first column so the vote is completely discarded, which is a bad thing. I do not think that these people intend to spoil their ballot papers; it is just that they have not understood that they need to put an X in the first column and then one in the second column as well.
Could the noble Baroness in her response make reference to the myriad voting systems we now have in the United Kingdom and how that could be a little less confusing for the voter? I am sure that from the Dispatch Box we are all agreed that changing the system for the election of councillors in England is not something that either of us supports. Nor is there evidence that it is something that the public want. At this stage, there is no need to move down that road.
Lord Tyler
“Governance arrangements for local government: entitlement to vote
In section 2 of the Representation of People’s Act 1983 (local government electors), in subsection (1)(d) for “18” substitute “16”.”
Lord Tyler
My Lords, this House will do itself a real disservice if it is not prepared to look at the example that is already taking place in Scotland. This happens to be exactly my message on this amendment, too, but my noble friend Lord Shipley made that point very well just now.
I start by reminding the House of these words:
“We have heard arguments for a change in the voting age. However, my concern is that that is part of a wider debate and it would not be appropriate—as the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, said—for any such change to be implemented in these quite specific circumstances. I have concerns as well about the administrative complexity of running an election in an area based on a register that would include 16 and 17 year-olds and running other council elections or referenda in the same area, quite likely on the same day, on a different basis with a different franchise. These are circumstances in which the risk of confusing the electorate is very real and this can only weaken, rather than strengthen, our local democracy”.—[Official Report, 22/6/15; col. 1464.]
I am sure that the Minister recognises those words, because they are hers. I compliment her not only on the wisdom of that contribution but on the fact that she used the word “referenda”, which sounds much nicer than referendums.
I thought that the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, was giving an infallible answer to the Labour Front Bench about the franchise for the mayoral elections. It would indeed be confusing if 16 and 17 year-olds were allowed to vote for a mayor but not in the general or local elections that might well be taking place on that same day. I and my Liberal Democrat colleagues entirely agree. We believe that all our fellow citizens should be enfranchised on the same basis for all local authority elections. Our amendment would deal neatly with all the Government’s very proper objections of practicality and potential confusion. On that basis, we can now move forward with the amendment by consensus.
Of course this will not satisfy all our fellow campaigners, since our ultimate objective is to expand the electorate in all elections in this way, but it would mean that we would have some logic, symmetry and standardisation in the continuing reform process. I have been campaigning for this extension of the franchise for many years. I have presented Private Member’s Bills in a succession of Sessions and in the current Parliament. They have enjoyed widespread support across the House. I am especially grateful for the consistent support of the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, on the Conservative Benches, the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, on the Labour Benches and the noble Baroness, Lady Young of Hornsey, on the Cross Benches. Most recently, the Labour Party has officially endorsed this campaign and we are delighted that noble Lords on the Opposition Front Bench have co-signed our amendment.
I admit that my original enthusiasm for this extension of the franchise was based on my own experience of the growing maturity of this age group, their increased responsibilities and their acknowledged fact that their citizenship course should lead inexorably to voter registration and then participation in the democratic process. There is good reason to think that young people are more likely to register to vote, and to start a lifetime of actually voting, if they are still in the home environment. Once they leave home, whether for jobs or further education, they often become more elusive. All the other distractions kick in and their involvement in the life of their home area weakens or ceases altogether. Those in the 18-plus age group all too often disappear off the electoral scene.
Of course, on average, the first vote cast by a 16 year-old in a general election would probably take place when he or she is 18. Nevertheless, once registered at 16 the likelihood is that they will continue on the register, if only because the ERO will be responsible for keeping them there and there is an obligation, backed by a fine, to continue giving the regular information needed to stay there. As the well-respected Intergenerational Foundation has identified, there is a growing democratic deficit caused by the increasing longevity of the UK population, which is well represented in this House. Quite simply, the young citizens with the most long-term interest in the consequences of their vote are outnumbered by ever larger numbers of pensioner electors.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
My Lords, I am pleased about the Minister’s final remarks, because I think the drop is catastrophic: 47% have dropped out in just over a year and that collapse is a consequence of IER. We have to deal with that; it is catastrophic.
Lord Tyler
My Lords, this late at night I am grateful for any crumbs that fall from ministerial tables. I suppose I should be grateful for that last comment. I shall take up, for a second, the argument that this is not appropriate legislation into which this reform should be inserted. The Long Title of the Bill includes:
“to make provision about local authority governance; and for connected purposes”.
That is critical to the whole consideration of the Bill. We are trying to revive important parts of the local governance of this country, and if the franchise is not relevant to that I do not know what is. Of course, at this time of night it would not be appropriate, as the Minister said. We have not had a very full debate: I have no doubt that we will have a full debate on Report. Therefore, for the time being, I and my colleagues are happy to withdraw the amendment.