Flybmi
Lord Tunnicliffe Excerpts(5 years, 2 months ago)
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Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minster for repeating the Answer to the Urgent Question. Eighteen months ago this House questioned Ministers on the collapse of Monarch Airlines, and we were promised things would change—yet here we are.
The Transport Secretary has dithered and delayed for nearly a year in bringing forward new rules on airline insolvencies, so we must ask Ministers what they have been doing. Flybmi has been in difficulty for some time, so what plans did the DfT have for an airline collapse? What plans does it have, or is it putting in place, should another airline be forced into this position?
Why was the airline allowed to sell tickets only hours before entering administration? The Minister detailed some of the actions being taken to support passengers left stranded by cancellations. Do the Government have an estimate of how many UK residents have been affected?
The Minister alluded to the fact that last week the Government agreed to extend the subsidy of Flybmi’s London to Derry route. We have gone from a ferry company with no ferries to a flight path with no flights. Was the DfT aware that the airline was about to collapse when it agreed this commitment of public money? What checks did Ministers do on the airline prior to extending the commitment?
Baroness Sugg
I thank the noble Lord for his questions. On how we are dealing with airline insolvency in the future, we have commissioned an independent review led by Peter Bucks to review consumer protection in the event of an airline or travel company failure. It is looking at options including an orderly wind-down of an airline so that it is able to conduct and finance repatriation options without impact on the taxpayer. The review is also looking at the lessons learned from the collapse of Monarch, and will identify potential market reforms necessary to ensure that passengers are protected when an airline fails. This is a complex issue and it is an extensive report. We are expecting the report in the spring.
Initial estimates are that fewer than 1,000 affected UK-originating passengers are overseas. Many will have already made their way back; many will have been planning to stay abroad. We understand that about two-thirds of those booked to return were on code shares, and those bookings will be honoured.
On the PSO, the department and the CAA were not informed of the administration until very shortly before the directors agreed to it. To be clear, the contract for the PSO is directly with the city of Derry and Strabane council. They are the people who run that contract and it is they who will re-let it shortly.
Air Passenger Rights and Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018
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Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, I rise wearily to my feet. The first thing I would like to register is my objection to being here. Once again, we are here to discuss a statutory instrument which addresses the issue of what we do if we leave without a deal. It is a deeply depressing pastime, discussing statutory instruments to lead this country into a catastrophic situation.
It is also depressing that the Government, if they wanted to hang on to what might be an intellectually narrow point, that any responsible Government should prepare for the worst scenario, if they had truly believed that, then surely they would have started the process much earlier so that we are not shovelling SIs through this Chamber by the shovelful, for want of a better way of doing it.
One of the problems of the sheer volume is that I certainly am not having enough time to give the level of scrutiny that I think is appropriate. Therefore, one tends to have to use short methods. The first that one is left to have to use is looking at the regulation itself, which is usually impossible. You need a very expensive lawyer to go through the regulations, see what they amend and what the effects are. The only thing a reasonable amateur such as myself can do is to go to the Explanatory Memorandum and see if it makes sense. If one does that, one comes to paragraph 2.3, which is “Why is it being changed?” I will read it because it is so reassuring:
“This instrument makes the changes needed to retained EU legislation on air passenger rights and domestic legislation made to implement the UK’s obligations under the Package Travel Directive. These changes ensure that the legislation continues to function correctly after the UK has left the EU. They also ensure that there is continuity in terms of the passenger rights that apply to air travel and that consumers will continue to be protected if there is no mutual recognition of insolvency protection regimes after exit day”.
Now, I think that says it is going to be all right, but I am required to scrutinise, so I did my best, and I have worked my way through the document. I confess I did not pick up the ownership point, and I look forward to the Minister’s response on that. If that statement is right, one works through the Explanatory Memorandum, and it puts in changes and does things to make that right. If it is right, can the Minister answer this question: in the event of a no-deal situation and this SI then becomes operative, is there any group of passengers or consumers whose rights and protections are diminished or lost after exit day?
The second question I have relates to the optimistic scenario, where there is a deal and this SI will not be required. One constantly looks for a sunset clause in these SIs which would allow that to operate. Could the Minister explain how we will handle this SI and the others that we are going to face today if there is a deal? Experience has taught me that one of the few things you have to go to in these SIs is the commencement provision. That says that Regulations 5(1) and 5(2) will be commenced 22 days after the regulations are made. That, I assume, will be somewhat before exit day. At present, it seems that the decision on whether we have a deal will be very close to exit day, so, if there is a deal, how is this SI going to be stopped from being enacted without a mechanism within it?
Baroness Sugg
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their consideration of these draft regulations. I am grateful for the scrutiny provided by noble Lords. These are important pieces of legislation, and it is right that they are properly scrutinised. I would not class the noble Lord, Lord Warner, or indeed any other noble Lord as a trouble-maker. I will attempt to get to all the questions, but if I do not manage to cover them, I will respond in writing.
On the point made by my noble friend Lady McIntosh, the Explanatory Memorandum sets out the exchange rate used to calculate the amounts. It is the average for the year to 31 December 2017, which has been used across the statutory instruments. There are currently no plans to change that.
In response to the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, let me say that this regulation will cover all carriers with a UK operating licence. That is issued by the CAA, so that is how we define who will be covered by these regulations in the event of a no-deal exit. The requirements of the operator’s licence are set out in the operation of air services regulations, which we debated last year.
On enforcement, if it is a UK carrier—that is, one with a UK operating licence—the CAA will enforce it. If it is departing from an EU member state, that member state will enforce it, and if it is a UK carrier departing from a third country, the CAA will again enforce it. So the example that my noble friend Lady McIntosh used of a flight departing from the UK will be enforced by the CAA, and the flight which then departs from the EU will be enforced by that relevant member state—I cannot remember which member state she referred to.
Air Services (Competition) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
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Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, I shall speak very briefly on these two instruments—there is no way we will oppose them. The first one is on competition. One’s enthusiasm for scrutinising in depth was somewhat killed by the first sentence in paragraph 7.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum, which says:
“The powers in the EU regulation have never been exercised and it is unlikely that they ever will be”.
At that point, I gave up detailed examination. This boils down—if there ever is a dispute in this area—to us having moved from a big gang called the EU to a little gang called ourselves. That is why I am not keen on crashing out of the EU without an agreement, because being part of the EU is, broadly speaking, a good thing when it comes to aviation.
I have some experience of the slots issue. The trouble is that it is 30 years old, so things may have changed, but I doubt it. In a sense, the general public do not realise what an airline is. An airline is, first and foremost and overwhelmingly, a timetable—you attach airplanes, crews and marketing to it, but you start with the timetable. In fact, I chaired one of BA’s internal committees which oversaw the process of developing the timetable, and the slots are a key part of it. They work, frankly, because there is an international consensus between airlines, airports and regulating authorities that the various slot allocation committees at various airlines will be co-ordinated on a worldwide basis to make the system work. This system has been fiddled with, but it has been pretty robust for 50 years. I take comfort from the Explanatory Memorandum, which says, as it should:
“The system relating to slot allocation at UK airports will remain unchanged”,
by this SI. Providing the Minister reaffirms that, it will have my support.
We have heard some comments. These would require policy changes to meet the challenges that the comments are directed at. I remind noble Lords that the one thing you cannot do under Section 8 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 is introduce any policy changes. In so far as that is the instruction to government in generating these SIs, I have to support the fact that, as far as I can tell, they have followed that instruction.
Baroness Sugg
My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their consideration of these draft instruments. On the slot allocation system, we are not moving to operate on our own. The current system of slot allocation, including the EU regulations, is based on guidelines produced at an international level by IATA. Those guidelines are not affected by EU exit. The system for slot allocation at UK airports will be the same after exit day as it is today, except that the role of the EU Commission will no longer apply.
The noble Lord is quite right to point out that slot reform in general has been around for some time, but there is an international consensus around this and we are considering it in our consultation strategy, Aviation 2050: The Future of UK Aviation. We set out a number of potential issues with the current process for slot allocation affecting competition in the aviation markets, such as historic grandfather rights and retiming, but there is a long-standing international system, so we will work very closely with the industry, IATA and countries with which the UK has aviation links to discuss that.
My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked whether current grandfather rights will be the same. Again, those will remain the same after exit day. As the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, pointed out, this does not change any policy on this and those rights that UK carriers have at EU/EEA airports will also not be affected.
On the point about the replacement of the competition regulation, raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, and my noble friend Lord Balfe, the UK has participated fully in the legislative process regarding the replacement regulation; it is now ready to be put to the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers, and it is intended to serve the same purpose as the current regulation—ensuring fair competition. But the powers, as I said, and as highlighted by my noble friend Lady McIntosh, have never been exercised and it is unlikely that they ever will be. The EU has reviewed the regulation, but the vast majority of our bilateral air services agreements have articles governing fair competition, and these are what we use to ensure that there is a level playing field in the operation of international air services. That is why it has not been used and we do not expect it to be used.
My noble friend Lord Balfe asked, as he did previously, about our future plans. We keep our legislation under ongoing review and will continue to do so after exit day to make sure that it meets our policy objectives and legal obligations. While we would not be under an obligation if we left without a deal, if we chose to implement the replacement regulation it would be through primary legislation. Again, my noble friend is right to point out that, of course, in the event of a no-deal exit the EU’s statute book will continue to move on and we will need to be flexible about ours.
My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked about timetables. Airlines have already published their timetables for flights post March 2019 and tickets are being sold. The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, asked about Aberdeen and the allocation of slots. As I mentioned before, slots are allocated through ACL and the EU: the Government have no role in the allocation of slots and airlines determine how they are allocated on a commercial basis. Of course, if a carrier does not use its slots 80% of the time, they will be returned to the slot pool for allocation. We have the option of PSOs if needed, but the decision about specific slots will be down to the commercial airline.
My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked about the EU regulations. She is right to point out that they were published in December. There has been many a conversation on those, through industry and through member states. We are seeing some proposed changes, particularly on a capacity freeze, as my noble friend pointed out. I agree with her that the aviation sector is incredibly important to this country, which is why we are working hard to ensure that the industry can continue to grow sustainably. She is right that there are issues around ownership and control. We have not seen the headquarters of easyJet move but we have seen easyJet take on a Swiss air operator certificate. There is no immediate issue, as my noble friend pointed out, but, as one might expect, EU carriers are working closely with the Commission on that.
We are seeking continued participation in the European Aviation Safety Agency. That will help us continue trade as well as flights. We have played a significant role in EASA over the years and we very much hope to continue to do so. PSOs will be open to qualifying carriers—those with cabotage rights in the UK—and that has already been fixed in the operation of air services SI. Those carriers with cabotage rights could include those from the EU and other countries, so there will be the same requirements for PSOs going forward.
I hope that I have answered most of the questions. If I have not, I will follow up in writing.
Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seatbelts) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018
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Baroness Randerson (LD)
My Lords, I will begin by pointing out that Paragraph 7.8 of the Explanatory Memorandum says:
“With exit day less than one year away”.
I keep repeating this because I want to know where these SIs have been all this time. Someone clearly did the work on them a long time ago, and we are now rushing them through this House. Why have they been left to this late stage?
That is my complaint over with. Turning to the issues in this SI, as the Minister has said, it is a simple transposition. But it is an important topic, because hundreds of thousands—probably millions—of British people travel abroad to Europe every year. A very large number of them take their car, and could therefore start off with perfectly legal seat belts only to find themselves in an illegal situation by the end.
This SI basically says “If it is legal in the EU, it will be legal in the UK. If you are exempt in the EU, you will be exempt in the UK”. What about UK drivers going to the EU in the situation I have just explained? Has the EU indicated what it intends to do in the event of a no-deal Brexit? On some transport issues, it has given a fairly clear—if not always desirable—indication. Has it made any comments on this at all?
Those who are in favour of Brexit, including the Secretary of State, want the freedom to develop our own standards. If we do, will we be guaranteed that, when we go to Europe with, say, our child’s bumper seat—which people often take with them on holiday—it will be legal when we get there?
There has been a lot of coverage lately of the end of the EU medical insurance system as it applies to UK residents. Is there a set format for the medical certificates referred to in this SI? Is there a particular form or list of medical professionals who can sign these certificates? My point is, how easy will it be in future for UK citizens to get a certificate of medical exemption that will be instantly recognised as authentic and acceptable, even by someone who perhaps does not speak English? To reverse that, if there is an EU format, then we will clearly be used to it, and the authorities in Britain coming across someone with a medical exemption would know about it. I am trying to tease out the way in which British people will be treated in future when they drive in the EU.
Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, leaving the EU without an agreement is a thoroughly stupid thing to do, but if it happens, this SI is thoroughly sensible and we will not oppose it. My understanding, which I think is the same as that of the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, is that it is not symmetric: that it does nothing for UK drivers in the EU but sensibly addresses the issue of drivers who would unknowingly be breaking the law were this SI not completed. It produces a sensible environment in which friends—as I would call them—from the European Union can drive in the UK.
Baroness Sugg
My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their consideration of these draft regulations. As the noble Baroness pointed out, these regulations are important—seat belts save lives. In 2017, 27% of car fatalities involved people not wearing a seat belt, and we need to ensure that as many people as possible wear them. That is what these regulations are designed to do.
I take the noble Baroness’s point on the Explanatory Memorandum. The drafting of some of these has been a lengthy process—with consultation, legal checks et cetera—but I take her point, and we will endeavour to do better for future as we get closer in.
Both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord mentioned reciprocity. This SI only makes provision for continuity of current practices in so far as visitors from the EU to the UK, and drivers in the UK, are concerned. It does not address what will happen in the EU; that will be decided by the European Union.
There will be no legal obligation on member states to recognise medical certificates issued in the UK. In the event of no deal, we will recognise medical certificates. We think that is far and away the easiest way to do it. But no reciprocal agreement has been confirmed by the EU, so we advise anyone holding such a certificate to check the position with any country to which they intend to travel. There is a current format which we provide to GPs—it is essentially a GP certificate. They are responsible for issuing them, and we will ensure that that format is consistent when we leave the EU. We cannot guarantee that they will be recognised, but we would like very much to think that they would be in the same way that we will recognise theirs, although the EU has not yet confirmed that.
There is no change on seat belts. The EU directive requires drivers and passengers to wear them, if they are fitted, so the position there will stay the same. At the moment, the standards for child restraints are set at UNECE—the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe—which, despite having the word Europe in its name, as we discussed in the Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill, is an international body. It will continue to set those standards, and we will continue to follow them. Child restraints which meet the UNECE international requirements will be recognised by the EU; the vast majority of UK child restraints meet those requirements.
I think I have covered most questions. Again, if I have missed one, I will follow up in writing.
In conclusion, this SI will ensure that the domestic seat-belt wearing legislation continues to work as at present. The point of the SI is to maintain the status quo, both in terms of seat-belt and child restraint use obligations and in the recognition of medical exemption certificates from EU member states. The Government’s objective is to maintain the status quo to avoid difficulties that would be encountered by drivers and, indeed, enforcers if existing legislation remained untouched. I hope noble Lords will agree that this is sensible in respect of laws relating to the wearing of seat belts.
Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Order 2019
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Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
Well, once again we have in front of us an SI that brilliantly illustrates why we should not leave the EU without a deal. I gather that it rests on two treaties. I commend the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, for the depth of her research on this issue. Mine was a little more superficial. I quite like the 1968 treaty, which we agreed to ratify 50 years later. I know that it is 50 years because I got married in 1968, and I can tell noble Lords that 50 years is a long time.
The SI creates a messy situation around IDP availability. This will be necessary for UK motorists, so, despite all the caveats, it is sensible that it is being brought forward. It recognises overseas motorists’ IDPs, which, again, is a good thing, and the arrangement is reciprocal.
Lord Steel of Aikwood (LD)
I have come to show a proper interest in European matters.
Lord Tunnicliffe
Good. I share the concern expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, about the resources that have been devoted to this. I shall be very happy to be told that I have misinterpreted this, but it seems to me that the day after this treaty becomes active—that is, 29 March 2019—we will have a cliff-edge situation. If we crash out without a deal, motorists will arrive in overseas countries illegally. The estimate of 7 million might be too high but, as I read the situation, technically an awful lot of people will need an IDP on the very first day. Can the Minister try to convince us that the processes necessary to meet such a sudden demand, and the plans for publicity so that the motoring public know, can be put in place so that we do not see many British motorists arriving overseas and finding themselves prosecuted?
Baroness Sugg
My Lords, I thank noble Lords again for their consideration of the draft regulations—the last of ours today. In the event of no deal, we remain confident that we will achieve mutual recognition and exchange agreements for driving licences with the EU and member states. As I said, we recognise EU and non-EU driving licences and very much hope that EU member states will also do so, which will remove the complexity of the system. But, obviously, until we have that agreement we must be prepared for all scenarios, so it is important to ensure that we can issue IDPs under the 1968 Vienna convention to provide that certainty for UK motorists driving in the EU.
I will respond to some of the questions raised. My noble friend asked about uninsured drivers. We intend that the UK should remain part of the green card-free circulation zone, and we are working towards that. We are seeking reciprocal arrangements to ensure that UK drivers who are hit by an uninsured driver, for example in France, can obtain compensation from the French national insurers’ bureau. On safety regulations, we have one of the best road safety records in the world; I am not familiar with the specific document which my noble friend referred to, but I assure him that we will work to continue and maintain that good safety record.
On the IDP format and the idea of an app—a new one on me, but I like the sound of it; you could perhaps called the IDP look “traditional”—the format is specified in the UN conventions, and at the moment an app or electronic document is not applicable. However, I agree with my noble friend that we should consider that in order to modernise and to enable permits to be applied for more easily.
On consultation, obviously this affects a huge number of people. We did a lot of consultation around the 1968 Vienna convention, which brought this in, we have held many discussions with motoring organisations such as the AA, the RAC and the RAC Foundation, and we have also had separate engagements with consumer associations, which are helping us to provide guidance to people.
On the communications point, I agree that the Government’s duty is to ensure that UK licence holders are provided with the correct and sufficient information to make sure that they are ready for the changes. As I say, we hope that they will not be needed. We have published guidance on GOV.UK, which covers everything, such as the type of IDP you will need in each member state—the noble Baroness was right to point out that you will need different IDPs if you are driving from France to Spain, which, just to add to the confusion, are valid for different amounts of time. The Post Office website also provides information on your nearest IDP-issuing branch, and which countries you will need which IDP for, and it will continue to update this guidance as we progress, I hope, with achieving bilateral agreements.
We have a public information campaign that ensures that UK nationals have all the information and advice they need to continue to plan and book their travel to Europe. It includes radio adverts, Spotify adverts and social media. As I say, we are in no way complacent that we will achieve this deal and IDPs will not be needed—that is why we are bringing forward these SIs. However, if we do not get a deal—I agree with the noble Lord that this is a very good example of why we need a deal—there is still the option of the mutual recognition of driving licences, which we are moving towards, especially as we are 45 days out. If we are closer to exit without this agreement and it looks less likely that we get it, I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness that we need to do all we can to ensure that we communicate that.
Drones: Consultation
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Baroness Sugg
The airspace modernisation programme is under way and the process will take a number of years. We have not modernised our airspace for over 50 years, and doing so will bring a lot of benefits to the users of our airspace and the communities living around airports. We will ensure that the House is kept updated as plans develop.
Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, given the disruption at Gatwick and Heathrow, can we be clear about who is authorised to destroy a drone? Will those authorisations be extended in forthcoming legislation, and who is likely to be authorised under future legislation?
Railways: Reliability
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Baroness Sugg
My Lords, we hope that the introduction of the trains will happen soon. There remain challenges relating to electromagnetic compatibility, ORR approvals and train design. Obviously, the delay is disappointing for everybody involved, but we should not lose sight of the benefits of this £2.7 billion investment. Each train will have around 15% greater capacity and, once the full fleet is in service, the upgraded timetable will deliver a 28% increase in capacity, so we look forward to their introduction.
Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister seemed to have some trouble with the question of whose responsibility this is. Can I help her on that matter? The railway is run by Network Rail and the train operating companies. The Secretary of State owns Network Rail—I know he probably does not want to but he does—and is personally responsible for its performance. The train operating companies work to a structure that is devised by the Government and supervised by the Government, and that does not work because the two halves have incompatible objectives. Does she agree that the sooner the train operating companies are brought into public ownership and a properly focused railway is created the better?
Baroness Sugg
It will not surprise the noble Lord to hear that I do not agree with him on that point, but I acknowledge that the rail system as it stands is not perfect. We have an ageing railway, which is at capacity. We need to look at how we run things and that is what we are doing through the rail review. It has been well over a decade since the last big change in the rail network. While we have seen record private investment and many more services, the system has of course had its challenges. We think that the time is right for a comprehensive review to ensure that our railways are run in the best way that they can be.
Merchant Shipping (Recognised Organisations) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
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Baroness Randerson (LD)
My Lords, these regulations involve ship inspections. The four sets of regulations this afternoon will lead me to repeat myself on a couple of occasions because the same themes come through in each one. All of them have safety issues at their core. The current EU-based system will be replaced with a UK-only system. As I understand it, it will continue to work within a system of international standards and the new legislation will retain existing criteria for the recognition, authorisation and monitoring of ROs: so far, so good. But ships move about and currently we have obligations to report to the EU to share information. How will this sharing happen effectively in future? Most of our ships will be sailing through EU waters at some point in their journey and many of the ships that visit our shores are EU ships. We need to know how that information is going to be shared in the future because of the safety implications.
The inspection of ships, both UK and foreign ones, is a key issue for the safety of ports. Therefore, I was quite surprised to read that there has been no formal consultation. Reasons were given on each of these SIs why there was no formal consultation. If you take the SIs together they are a pretty significant bundle of legislation and would be worth consultation in the round, if not as individual pieces of legislation.
It states in the Explanatory Memorandum that the Secretary of State will be given power to make subordinate legislation. Can the Minister clarify whether this will be an affirmative or a negative procedure?
Finally, the list of ROs we have been provided with makes for interesting reading. I do not in any way pretend to be an expert in these issues. Can the Minister enlighten me as to how this list is drawn up? How is this rather disparate list of organisations there and how do we change it? What are the criteria for changing it if we want to? I would be grateful for some information on that.
Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
I thank the Minister for presenting this instrument. I have no great problem with it but I lack a little bit of understanding. The first thing I would like to be clear on is whether this is a no-deal instrument, that is, something that needs to be processed quickly because it is necessary if we fall out of the EU without a deal—which in my view and that of my party would be the least satisfactory outcome. I can see that the instrument does its work in the event of a no deal; I am not so clear about what happens to it if there is a deal. Will it be repealed or will it be paused? Will it continue to exist? The Minister may find it efficient to answer that question referring to all four statutory instruments if it is the same answer.
Ship and Port Security (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018
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Baroness Randerson (LD)
I thank the Minister for her explanation. The EU regulations behind this provide a standardised regime of protective security for port facilities and the surrounding area, and this SI also covers inspections. It replaces the EU system with a UK system that mirrors the EU one, and in doing so, there is one crucial change: it removes the obligation to provide information to the European Commission. I am sorry to ask again: how will we co-ordinate and share information with the Commission in the future?
The SI says that the MCA will continue to carry out inspections to ensure that ships and ports meet required security standards. Can the Minister say who will set down those standards and require them in the future and how we will align them internationally so that our standards are as good as those of the rest of the world? Since this is an attempt to mirror the EU, how will the Government adapt to changes that the EU makes so that we do not put ourselves at a disadvantage with our current EU partners?
Can the Minister also say what liaison there has been with the devolved Administrations on this? It is not clear from the Explanatory Memorandum. The devolved Administrations have an important role in port administration. We do not want to confuse people totally; the idea that you would have a very different set of standards if you put into the port of Holyhead rather than the port of Liverpool would be deeply unsatisfactory and confusing. The SI gives the Secretary of State power to amend port security regulations by the negative procedure, and the Minister drew attention to that. However, perhaps I did not hear correctly or fully; could she say why the affirmative procedure is not being considered?
The EU can block amendments to the ISPS code if they might lower maritime security standards. This power is now given, in this SI, to the Secretary of State, once again by the negative procedure. We do not want to see lower standards. I am concerned about the danger that we might get out of step with the EU on the highest standards which are set by it and that we might do so simply by default. That is because the Secretary of State would exercise the power through the negative procedure and we would not be given the opportunity to scrutinise it.
This is a serious issue as regards safety and it is important that we are given the opportunity to scrutinise it. I personally would prefer the affirmative procedure, but I will listen carefully to what the Minister has to say.
Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, once again I thank the noble Baroness for introducing this instrument. I have subjected it to my standard test: is it the minimum policy change required? I also have to admit that I did not understand the overall framework, but that is my fault. I know about aeroplanes and trains, but the sea is a mystery to me. What I have picked up from the instrument is that SOLAS with its ISPS code is an international convention. Is it the case that the international body hands down specifications and requirements that it has previously put through the EU and in the future will make directly to the UK? Are such directions and recommendations mandatory for the UK except as excepted by this instrument?
Baroness Sugg
My Lords, I thank noble Lords once again for their consideration. As with all of these SIs, our EU exit is not going to mean that co-operation with EU member states on matters of national security will cease. We will continue to work with the EU and our international partners where appropriate on all matters relating to maritime security.
As regards the devolved Administrations, port and ship security is not a devolved matter, but as the noble Baroness has pointed out, there are ports across the United Kingdom so we have engaged with the devolved authorities in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland on the proposals in this draft SI and they have been supportive of them.
I turn now to SOLAS and the ISPS code. The UK is a contracting party to the Safety of Life at Sea convention, which is an international convention. The International Ship and Port Facility Security code was adopted under SOLAS. That code has established a range of protective security measures which should be put into practice at ports. Following that, the EU regulation made the provisions in Part A and specific elements in Part B mandatory for all member states, which I went through in my opening speech. Following the conversion of EU law into UK law, they will be directly applicable.
Lord Tunnicliffe
Perhaps I may ask a question as a point of clarity. I have some trouble in seeing what the role of the EU is now if SOLAS hands down a set of rules and we are a contracting state. Are we not required to do that by virtue of being a contracting state whether the EU is there or not? The only role that emerges from this is the ability to reject a rule if it comes under the conditions set out. That was previously exercised by the EU but in future it will be exercised by the Secretary of State. I do not see, other than in a role of co-operation, what the EU’s role is now. I do not see what “taking it away” actually means.
Merchant Shipping and Other Transport (Environmental Protection) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2018
Lord Tunnicliffe Excerpts(5 years, 3 months ago)
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Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for presenting these two SIs. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, for her points. She has stolen most of my best lines and, in light of the hour, I will try not to be too repetitive. I hasten to add that I am very happy to hear all her questions answered but please disassociate me from anything to do with Northern Ireland.
We seem to be in a rather different position here. On virtually everything we have discussed today there has been a pretty sound EU position that we are just trying to transfer across. My sense is that we do not have a pretty sound EU position when it comes to these instruments. Therefore, how we manage the future and how these instruments impact on the future are extremely important.
I will be brief. The first instrument covers sulphur standards, anti-fouling and environmental impact standards. The overwhelming, important one is the issue of sulphur dioxide pollution. I hope the noble Baroness can give some response. It seems to me that it has to be international. When the gas is released, it will go where it goes. Therefore, we need to understand how decisions about the concentration of sulphur in fuels are managed, the areas of the world that are covered and the testing techniques—particularly the position about the Irish Sea, which seems to be an anomaly. There is also the matter of agreeing standardisations for abatement technologies for sulphur dioxide. Once again, those sorts of issues really need international agreement. Can the Minister give me some feel of the situation we will be left in if we leave the EU without an agreement and this instrument becomes applicable?
In passing, I would also like to mention SafeSeaNet. It seemed a wacky sort of title so I googled it. It is clearly a very important facility and without it it is difficult to see how we can discharge the responsibilities we take over, particularly in sulphur standards.
The anti-fouling part of this seems relatively straightforward and I do not have any questions on it. I am not entirely convinced that the environmental impact assessment is a consequence of leaving the EU. It seems to me that the Government are tidying up pieces of domestic legislation and perhaps smuggling it through. I am sure I have misunderstood that but I feel a duty to ask the question.
Finally, the points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, on ship recycling are very important. In the past this has been a dreadful area of activity in the world. The EU initiative is a commendable step forward in tidying it up. It is very important to understand how we will be involved in the future. I hope the Minister will be able to assure us that we will go into this new era—if we are forced into it—on the front foot to get these standards improved and, what is more, to continue to participate with other countries to make sure they are international standards so the whole world can share the benefits of proper controls.
Baroness Sugg
I thank noble Lords for considering these draft regulations. I will attempt to answer as many questions as I am able to and will follow up in writing if I do not get to any. I absolutely agree with the noble Lord’s point that these environmental measures are needed across international boundaries. That is why we are seeing international action through the IMO, such as the higher global sulphur standard, which comes into force next year. We will continue to play a leading role in the IMO in the development of those environmental measures and also continue to co-operate with other countries on the enforcement of such measures through our membership of the Paris MoU on port state control.
We support the new global limit on the sulphur content of fuel of 0.5% on 1 January 2020. The UK, along with other states, is assisting the IMO to develop best-practice guidelines for ship owners and operators and all suppliers. Since 2015, ships inside the emissions control area—the North Sea and including the English Channel but not the Irish Sea—have been limited to 0.1% sulphur unless they use an exhaust gas cleaning system or alternative fuel. Under our recent clean air strategy, we are considering options for extending that current emission control area in the North Sea to other UK waters such as the Irish Sea. The UK’s position on sulphur standards, and the inspection regime, will not be changed by EU exit. We have committed to taking further action on that in the clean air strategy.
The standards and testing regimes for the future are agreed at the IMO—again, that will not change after we leave the EU. Other organisations such as fuel suppliers and the International Organization for Standardization will be involved in those discussions—as will the UK. There are separate EU targets for the number of ship inspections and fuel samples which member states need to take annually, and which we have retained.
The instrument provides for the continued recognition of the emission abatement methods approved by EU member states, and most equipment is approved at the IMO level. Member states are allowed to trial new and innovative technology which does not have the formal approval of the IMO; in practice, we expect most systems of emission abatement technology to be built to meet the IMO type requirements, which we would follow.
I note the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, about whether the consultation would be with member states or the Commission. The consultation mentioned in paragraph 7.3 relates to the consultation on the environmental impact of projects being consented under the Transport and Works Act, and I confirm that the requirement, where a project could impact another member state, is to consult with the appropriate authorities and bodies of the individual countries concerned, not the Commission.
On SafeSeaNet, which both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness referred to, we will continue to share data. Through the Paris MoU THETIS system, countries share data from port inspections. Currently, we send data to THETIS through the EMSA SafeSeaNet system. In a no-deal scenario, the MCA will simply send the data directly to the THETIS system. That is why we have removed references to SafeSeaNet from the regulations. We will absolutely continue to share IMO compliance information through THETIS.
The noble Lord referred to environmental impact assessments, which are outside the EU withdrawal Act. I will say a few more words about that in an effort to explain our actions. The two minor amendments being made under powers other than the EU withdrawal Act are under Section 2(2) of the European Communities Act, and the amendment to Section 6(A) of the Transport and Works Act 1992. That updates an out-of-date reference to the EEA agreement, and we need to make that correction now using the power under the ECA Act before it is repealed under the EU withdrawal Act, so these are consequential amendments.
Consultation is slightly different with the Welsh and other devolved Governments. That is because some of the regulations in the environmental protection regulations amend the transport and works legislation. That was originally made in 1992 and is applicable to England and Wales only and operates in areas which are now devolved. As such, we have been required to consult with the Welsh Government. The rest of the instrument is UK-wide but, as I said before, we are in regular contact with the Scottish Government on all SIs, including this one.
On the new UK list for recycling facilities, both the European and the UK list have the same standards on accepting new facilities and have the same criteria for approval. We expect the two lists to remain closely aligned on that. It is possible that new ship recycling standards, if the EU brought them about and the UK wanted to mirror them, could be replicated through the pollution powers in the Merchant Shipping Act.
On the question of Northern Ireland, the legislation does not make any changes in relation to cross-border requirements after we leave the EU and therefore, in a backstop scenario, there would be a UK list rather than the EU list. I believe that the backstop would apply only to the land border in this situation and there would be no impact on operations there.
We think that UK shipyards will continue to be on the European list of ship recycling facilities after we leave the EU. The noble Baroness pointed out that there were other non-EU member states facilities on the list. Turkish and US yards are listed as non-EU recycling facilities.
I think that I have covered most of the points but I will go through my response and the questions raised carefully to make sure that I have covered them all. This SI is intended essentially to ensure that the legislation on environmental protection and ship recycling continues to work effectively from day one of exit, and I hope that it will receive noble Lords’ support.