Universities: Financial Sustainability
Debate between Lord Tugendhat and Viscount Younger of Leckie
Viscount Younger of Leckie
I answered the question by saying that I cannot give a precise date for when the Augar review will report, but I have said consistently that it will do so very shortly, and here we are early in 2019. I am not going to be drawn into speculating on what the Augar review will say; we will have to wait. When the report is published, the Government will want to make a full response.
Lord Tugendhat (Con)
My Lords, does the noble Viscount agree that when he uses the word “marketing”, in this context it is a rather dangerous word? One reason why some universities are in trouble is that they have been marketing a great deal too hard and getting into debt as a result. Does he accept that it will now be necessary for the regulatory agency—the OfS—and others to keep a very close eye on the finances of universities, and to ensure that rumours that spring up about one do not spread to others? There is a danger here of a contamination effect.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My noble friend is right. When I mention marketing, I stick to my view that universities, just like employers, need to market themselves and explain what they do and who they are. Equally, he is right that the Office for Students, with the greater teeth that it has been given, must look ahead with the strong level of provider registrations that it is operating at the moment. Part of that is being sure it can keep an eye on the viability of each and every registered provider, anticipating rather than reacting to any issues that might crop up.
Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill
Debate between Lord Tugendhat and Viscount Younger of Leckie
Lord Tugendhat
My Lords, I would like to address the noble Lord’s point about annual approval. I spoke in favour of annual approval on Second Reading, and I am a little surprised to be speaking on it again on Report. I gained the very clear impression from the wind-up speech of the then Minister the noble Lord, Lord Marland, that there would be annual approval. In referring to the noble Lord, Lord Gavron, Lord Marland said:
“He also asked me the frequency of the new binding vote on remuneration policy. The binding vote on future pay policy will happen annually, unless companies choose to leave their pay policy totally unchanged. I think there will enormous shareholder pressure on companies that continue to leave their policy unchanged”.—[Official Report, 14/11/12; col. 1608.]
I strongly agree with the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, that this matter, like other important issues that come before the AGM, should be dealt with annually. Indeed, it would be eccentric to suggest that any other proposition be put forward. If the Minister really wants us to agree to triennial agreements, he will have to make a powerful case that has not yet been made in this Chamber.
It would be preferable if the Minister cast some light on how he interprets the undertaking of the noble Lord, Lord Marland. If the Minister is saying that any change whatever in executive remuneration is subject to a vote, we will, in practice, have annual votes because it is inconceivable that you would have a group of executive directors whose pay would remain completely unchanged for three years. Indeed, it is pretty unlikely that you would have a group of executive directors who themselves remained completely unchanged for three years. The overwhelming likelihood is that there would be changes in the pay packages and the composition of the executive group. If the Minister can assure me that any change whatever, either in an individual package or in incorporating the arrival of a new executive director, will mean that the matter has to come before an annual vote, I would be able to follow my noble friend. However, if he cannot do that and if he is saying that unlike the report and accounts and all kinds of other things, executive pay should be given special status and subjected only to triennial review, he is diminishing the value of the Bill.
I said on Second Reading that I commend the Government for tackling this issue, and I hold to that position. It was not tackled under the previous Government and it is good that it should happen now. The Government have established the principle that the issue is a matter of public interest, but if that is the case, as is the case in other important areas such as the appointment of auditors and the annual report and accounts, why on earth should it not be dealt with on an annual basis? Or is the Minister going to suggest that the appointment of auditors should be made triennial, quinquennial or at some other interval? He must either try carefully to explain why he puts executive pay into a special category—not just tell us about investors saying something but actually make a reasoned case—or he must convince us that any change whatever will trigger an annual approval.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My Lords, I wish first to follow on from the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, concerning the noble Lord, Lord Gavron. I am sure that everyone on this side of the Chamber would agree that we wish him a speedy recovery. Secondly, I take this opportunity to acknowledge the considerable experience of the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, in the management of companies and on the ups and downs of fortune. It was helpful to hear about his background.
Lord Tugendhat
The noble Viscount used the words “any change in policy”. Am I right to understand him to mean that if there was a change in the remuneration of two or three directors, or even of just one director, during the course of 12 months, the total pay package would have to be put to the AGM that year and could not be held over for two or three years, or whatever was left? Would it have to be voted on immediately or at the next AGM?
Viscount Younger of Leckie
I can confirm that it would have to be voted on immediately, because the change had happened in that particular year, so there would be that trigger for year two, in effect. If I have failed to do so already, I ask the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.