Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill

Debate between Lord Truscott and Lord Bailey of Paddington

Report stage & 3rd reading
Friday 24th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 51 and 52. I will not rehearse the arguments that I made in Committee, but I still have a major concern around the removal of any criminal sanction against bad landlords for service charge abuse. I want to be quite clear that this is not a crusade against landlords; landlords are often small family businesses, which are very good and want to help their tenants. However, a significant number of landlords have their leaseholders by the short and curlies, to coin a term that was sent to me by a suffering leaseholder. He was trying to get across just how powerless leaseholders are in this situation.

At a time when we have the likes of Alan Bates and sub-postmasters actively considering bringing private criminal charges against the Post Office, why would we remove that tactic from another set of people in our society who are roundly abused all the time? It is very simple: all this, for me, is about control. We need to give people who have paid this money control over their own future and their own money.

On Amendment 52, if a landlord does not pay back their overcharging within two months, they should face interest charges. This is to incentivise a landlord who has lost in an open, professional tribunal, who then drags their feet and forces leaseholders to launch other legal proceedings to reclaim money that they are rightfully owed. Again, this comes down to letting the little man or woman in the street have some control over their future. Perhaps my noble friend the Minister will comment on why the Government would not support these two reasonable, necessary measures, and send a signal to the country that the law is on the side of the small person who has ploughed all their savings into their home and who has no recourse.

[Lord Truscott (Non-Afl)]

I will speak in support of my Amendment 66. In doing so, I remind the House of my interest as a long-standing leaseholder. At the outset, I thank the Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Bybrook, who is not in her place, for her diligence and engagement on the Bill. I also thank noble Lords who have worked so hard to improve the Bill as it has progressed through your Lordships’ House.

I welcome the Bill, even in its current form, as it at last heralds the beginning of the end of the outdated feudal leasehold system. Despite a determined rearguard action, we leaseholders have seen exploitation for hundreds of years. Enough is enough. In that sense, I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Fox.

I must admit that, like many noble Lords and Members of the other place, I was rather taken aback by this cut-and-run election, which leaves so many pieces of legislation up in the air. My wife’s reaction was that Mrs Sunak has simply had enough and wants to have a good, long, normal family holiday. There seems to be no other, political logic for it.

Like many noble Lords, I would have liked to have seen further improvements to the Bill, especially clarity—ensuring that leases were truly faster, cheaper and easier to extend. The situation in which it is left to the discretion of the Secretary of State to set the deferment rate, replacing marriage value, remains unsatisfactory. In that sense, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Moylan.

Incidentally, I see no type of exploitation taking place in this Bill. Pension representatives have already said that the proposals in the Bill will not significantly impact them or their members.

Similarly, I would have liked to have seen ground rents reduced to a peppercorn which, as was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy of Southwark, we were initially promised. For that reason, I support Amendment 45 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock.

On my own amendment on forfeiture, I believe it is unacceptable that people should lose their homes for sometimes minor rent or service charge arrears. The figure of £300 was mentioned and there are recorded cases of it being a pittance. However, rents and service charges are necessary for building maintenance, fire safety, cleaning and other services, so they should be paid.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Truscott (Non-Afl)]

I think the noble Lord misunderstood to a certain extent what I was saying. Forfeiture actually happens; that is the point. It is merely the threat of forfeiture that ensures that people abide by their leases, and at the moment, as he mentioned, there is no system in place to ensure that people abide by those leases unless you go to the High Court, which is a very lengthy and expensive process. Without some such system, you will increasingly have anti-social behaviour and bodies such as Airbnb installed in residential blocks, and at the moment, there is very little recourse.

[Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)]

Forfeiture is regularly used as a threatening tool so, although it does not land in court all the time so people have their property seized, it is often spoken about to pull people into line or to force people to pay bills that are, at best, iniquitous. It is used very regularly. I accept the noble Lord’s point that there needs to be another system, but forfeiture needs to go, even if that system does not exist, because its effect on leaseholders is broad, deep and very unpleasant.

Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill

Debate between Lord Truscott and Lord Bailey of Paddington

Committee stage
Wednesday 24th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

I thank the noble Lord for expanding on that.

It would be interesting to hear from the Minister whether there are any statistics regarding freeholders using the forfeiture system to address not the issues that are normally referenced—failure to pay ground rent or an accumulation of three years or more of debt—but breaches of the lease. It would be helpful to understand all that.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, has said, if the payment in lieu is more than £350, or is outstanding for more than three years, the freeholder is entitled to claim repossession—and then all the equity in the property is lost, of course. When I first looked at this, I could not see how it could possibly be right. I remember that, at Second Reading—I was just trying to find it in Hansard—the Minister said that the Government were considering bringing forward an amendment to address this issue. It is unfortunate that that has not been forthcoming in the time that has elapsed between Second Reading and Committee. Perhaps in her reply, the Minister can say whether the Government intend to bring an amendment on Report. It would help us resolve what is, on the face of it, a complete injustice. It would be sufficient if the Minister said that that is going to happen, and maybe those of us who have signed the amendments could have a meeting with her to discuss it, if necessary.

[Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)]

I support this amendment. Although in his intervention the noble Lord talked about how to control peoples’ behaviour when they have misbehaved and breached their lease, it should be taken into account that the threat of forfeiture is held over leaseholders, in a very draconian fashion, for the smallest infraction. More importantly, it is used to enforce such things as the flagrant and inequitable boosting of service charges. If you are in dispute in this situation, you are told you will end up having to pay court fees. You are told that, if you do not pay—

[Lord Truscott (Non-Afl)]

To clarify, I said specifically that people should not have their leases forfeited as a result of rent arrears. The threat of forfeiture can ensure that lease compliance occurs. If you remove the threat of forfeiture, how do you achieve compliance with other terms of the lease?

[Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)]

There are ways and means within our court system to reclaim any money that may be owed to the freeholder for service charges, ground rent and so on. Let us be very clear that forfeiture is used as a tool to threaten, bully and cajole leaseholders into compliance. When your freeholder invents a new reason as to why you have to pay more, you are warned that, if you do not do so, you could be taken to court for forfeiture. You are then told by the system that, if you do pay more, it is seen as agreeing with the bill that was presented to you.

[Lord Truscott (Non-Afl)]

I am not talking about freeholders taking action against other leaseholders; I am talking about how one leaseholder may want to enforce a lease against another leaseholder. In that case, you are saying that they would have to go to the High Court to enforce the lease, and that is a very lengthy and protracted process. I am not talking about the relationship with the freeholder or indebtedness; I am talking about how to enforce the lease between leaseholders, and I gave the example of Airbnb using a block of flats.

[Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)]

It would be extraordinary, though possible, if fellow leaseholders could invoke forfeiture but the freeholder could not. That would be incredible, and I am sure it would have all its own problems.

The point remains that, if you keep some kind of forfeiture, freeholders will want to keep hold of that power, because it is exactly that: an unfettered, threatening power, which leaseholders speak about as though it is mythical, like a dragon that will burn you if you stand up to the freeholder. Words fail me when I try to describe how forfeiture must go. We have had many conversations in which the word “feudal” has been bandied about. This is one occasion where it has real meaning. Forfeiture should and must go.