Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill)

Debate between Lord Thurlow and Lord Jamieson

Consideration of Commons amendments and / or reasons
Wednesday 26th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Thurlow (CB)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Motion N1. We have already had reference to this, but I have noted the Commons’ objections to my amendment on Report, and I have revised it and wish simply to sketch the alterations. This revised amendment, therefore, is about reviews exclusively—first, a review of the £500,000 threshold of rateable value, which is the cliff edge that the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, referred to, and the impact it will have on businesses. This is a vital review because at present, it will be untenable for organisations that just exceed the £500,000 rateable value and will be compelled to pay a higher band of rates. The second review concerns how to address the appropriate tax rateable value on the big warehouse retailers—the internet retailers such as, but not exclusively, Amazon. Fairness between the high street and these big-box retailers is what we seek. We want to establish a new use class, purely for the benefit of business rates and no other reason, but without insisting upon implementation, which was in the previous amendment and rejected in the other place. The Government will then be able to apply the new rateable value to these big gorilla retailers at the flick of a switch at any time in the future, but they are not compelled to do so.

All sides of the House want fairness for the high street against these big retailers. Let us not duck it or leave it in the long grass. I am afraid I am not convinced by the comments of the Minister so I, in turn, wish to press my Motion at the appropriate time.

[Lord Jamieson (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a councillor in central Bedfordshire. I rise to speak in support of the noble Lord, Lord Thurlow, and his Motion N1. The noble Lord has been persistent in his efforts to get the Government to listen and bring forward a serious review of the case for a separate use class for retail fulfilment centres that are not on the high street. He is an excellent example of a Peer who brings his experience and expertise to your Lordships’ House. As a professional chartered surveyor, he has brought that expertise to bear during the debates on the Bill, and I am very grateful to him for that.

The Bill fails to deliver on the Government’s manifesto commitment to replace the business rates system and level up the playing field between the high street and the internet giants—a so-called Amazon tax. It fails on both counts. The reviews proposed in this amendment would provide the basis to achieve this. The new £500,000 threshold for the higher multiplier is a blunt tool that will impact many organisations that were never intended to be hit with higher business taxes. It does not deliver on the Government’s objective of targeting online giants. I have consistently made the point that a £500,000 threshold is a cliff edge that will create perverse incentives at the margins, disincentivising investment, particularly on the high street.

The noble Lord, Lord Thurlow, has gone further arguing forcefully that the Government must review the case for a separate use class for retail fulfilment centres that are not on the high street. I am grateful to him for including my concerns about the impact of the £500,000 threshold in his Motion N1, and I am pleased that my party will vote for it should he choose to test the opinion of the House.

[Lord Thurlow (CB)]

My Lords, I realise that I omitted to refer to Motion P1, which is in the same group. It is consequential on Motion N1 and will depend on the outcome of that Division.

Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill

Debate between Lord Thurlow and Lord Jamieson

Committee stage
Monday 24th February 2025 Grand Committee

[Lord Jamieson (Con)]

May I deputise? Before I do, I declare my interest as a councillor in Central Bedfordshire. In moving Amendment 3, I shall speak to Amendments 18, 37 and 43 in the name of my noble friend Lady Scott, and in favour of Amendment 32 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Thurlow.

Amendment 3 seeks to introduce discretion for billing authorities in the application of the higher multiplier. The other amendments in the name of my noble friend Lady Scott—Amendments 18, 37 and 43—question whether the Treasury is the right authority to define these hereditaments. The purpose of these amendments is to seek the Government’s reaction to the proposal that local authorities should have a role in deciding which businesses pay the newer, higher multiplier. Local authorities are in a unique position to comprehensively understand the challenges and circumstances faced by their local businesses, which a centralised body certainly is not.

For all its strengths, we know that His Majesty’s Treasury does not have the local knowledge and in-depth understanding of the needs of individual high streets to make informed decisions on business rates that work in the best interests of the local areas. Local authorities are on the ground and are intimately familiar with the economic, social and cultural landscape of their high streets and areas. From my own experience in Central Bedfordshire, I know the positive impact that a well-run local authority can deliver for its high streets. We are interested to hear how the Government seek to empower councils in these areas. We have heard a great deal from the party opposite about the value of devolution; this is a good example of where the Government should put these sentiments into action. The amendments in the name of my noble friend Lady Scott look to empower local authorities to tailor policy to best suit their local area’s specific needs.

Fundamentally, policy is about not only implementing rules but creating a framework that works in practice. Therefore, it is essential, even if the Government are unable to accept the amendments in this group, that local authorities are consulted properly before the Bill is passed. Can the Minister set out the consultation process undertaken to date and confirm for the Committee the further steps that his department will take to consult local authority leaders on these changes? Can he also update the Committee on how this change to our business rates system will interact with the Government’s wider plans to reorganise local authorities? We know that the environments in which businesses operate vary dramatically throughout the UK. However, this issue is neglected in the drafting of this legislation.

It is concerning that the broad applications of the definitions of hereditaments, which will be determined by the Treasury, will not address these regional disparities and enable a focus on what works locally. When created by the Treasury, definitions are designed with an overarching and national perspective and may risk creating unintended consequences for local businesses. They do not account for the nuances of local businesses, which are well understood by local authorities, so we must be cautious about adopting a one-size-fits-all approach when introducing legislation that will undoubtedly have significant implications for local businesses. The Government risk implementing blanket definitions that are disconnected from the realities faced locally.

Finally, I turn to Amendment 32 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Thurlow, which seeks to remove the power of the Treasury to define a retail, hospitality and leisure property; this addresses the fact that it is local authorities who decide what constitutes a retail, hospitality and leisure relief property, in line with the government guidance. In tabling this amendment, the noble Lord appears to have many of the same concerns as those expressed in my noble friend Lady Scott’s amendments. I look forward to hearing his speech. We did not discuss this matter before Committee so I was pleased to see on the Marshalled List that I have a friend on this issue on the Cross Benches; I thank and offer my support to the noble Lord, Lord Thurlow, and hope that we can work together constructively after Committee.

To conclude, I hope that all noble Lords will listen carefully to the concerns raised in this group of amendments. I look to the Minister to engage proactively with the issues addressed in this amendment. I beg to move.

[Lord Thurlow (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Jamieson, has taken the words out of my mouth. I support much of what he has said.

The starting place for my comments on this group is that the Bill seems to reverse the attempts to regionalise power from the centre; it would take the ability to define these hereditaments back to central government. As the noble Lord, Lord Jamieson, said clearly, the definition of RHL properties needs local expertise. There are regional disparities, to which he referred; it is terribly important to understand that. Regional disparities are huge. This measure is a generic product, but it is subject to huge regional variations. One size does not fit all hereditaments. That is an important starting place. It is no accident that the government guidelines allow local authorities to define RHL in accordance with the existing government guidance. That is very sensible. They are the people on the ground. They understand the give and take, as well as the commercial flows, involved.

A large supermarket on a high street may be the only anchor present in that town, being vital to the health of the high street, probably with a car park or a bus stop, and the only source of sufficient turnover of pedestrians to justify its presence in the high street at all. It has to be understood that, if these anchors pack up and leave, high streets really do suffer. There is a terrible price to pay for letting them go and anything that imperils their presence has to be terribly carefully decided, which is why it is a local issue, not a central government one. I strongly urge the Government to allow local authorities to continue to make these decisions.