Brexit: Costs

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Lord Bates

Wednesday 29th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I am not going to respond in the terms that the noble Lord has set out because it is important that we are in a serious negotiation not with enemies but with people with whom we want to be friends. We want a constructive relationship with them in the future and it behoves us to recognise that in our language and the way we go about the negotiations. The Prime Minister’s speech in Florence was a textbook example of that.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, have there been any discussions yet in this divorce, as it is called, about not only the alimony but the fate of the matrimonial home—all those buildings in Brussels to which we have contributed? Are we going to get our money back?

[Lord Bates]

There are assets on the balance sheet of the European Commission and, be they buildings, satellites or anything else, they will be part of the assets factored in to a fair and reasonable settlement for the United Kingdom.

Public Sector Pay Cap

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Lord Bates

Wednesday 5th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

We would say to those people that we have independent pay review bodies which look at these matters. On Northern Ireland, there are historical challenges. Personally, I think that securing stability for the Government going forward is an important part of maintaining that path to growth, enabling us to pay down on the debts and ensure that salaries for both the public and private sectors increase in the future.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, I am afraid that my noble friend omitted to correct the noble Lord opposite, who talked about £1 billion being given to the DUP. No such sum is being given to the DUP—it is being given to the people of Northern Ireland, to improve standards of living in Northern Ireland.

Overseas Development Assistance

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Lord Bates

Tuesday 4th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I agree that there has got to be that essential partnership. There has got to be an essential partnership with the US as a major deliverer of international aid. We have to work with the Commonwealth, which is a major recipient and also an important partner in resolving a lot of the conflicts. We work with the Nordic Plus states in the development arena. We have to work in partnership. We have an overarching aim, whether we are in the EU or not, and that is the sustainable development goals. That is our target: the eradication of extreme poverty by 2030. We are all working towards that wherever we are.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, unlike some noble Lords who have spoken on this Question, I have at least as much confidence in our very good Secretary of State, Priti Patel, as I have in the bureaucrats of the European empire?

[Lord Bates]

I share my noble friend’s absolute confidence in our Secretary of State on these matters because she has been strong in emphasising that it is not just the amount that we contribute to overseas development that determines its effectiveness but how it is spent and focused. That is a key target and a key aim of reform, which she has avowed, not only in our department but in the UN institutions.

Syria: Refugees

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Lord Bates

Tuesday 10th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

We hope to play an active role through the International Syria Support Group, which has the two strands of humanitarian aid and conflict resolution. That meets weekly in Geneva and we are still playing a part in it. We wish the negotiations all success and will of course support them in every way we can.

[Lord Tebbit]

My Lords, would it not make more sense if we and the other western European nations offered to take as many as could come here of the Christian refugees from these troubled areas, leaving it to the Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia, which are immensely wealthy and have immense amounts of space, to take their fellow Muslims?

[Lord Bates]

My Lords, we have said that we recognised that Christians and other minorities face a level of persecution in the region. In fact, my noble friend will be pleased to note that there was a commitment to protect Christians, particularly in the Middle East, in the 2015 Conservative manifesto. We are very mindful of that commitment; of course, anyone who is persecuted, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, is eligible for international protection—the type of protection that this Government have been offering.

Population Increase: Migration

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Lord Bates

Thursday 28th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

The noble Lord is absolutely right. This is one of the reasons why we are investing in apprenticeships and in the quality of our education. A very important element of the Immigration Bill which is currently going through your Lordships’ House is the application of a skills levy on people who employ from outside the EU, which will then go back into making sure that the UK-based population have the skills necessary for those jobs in future.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

Does it remain the Government’s policy that immigration should be brought down to tens of thousands a year?

[Lord Bates]

Yes, that is our policy, which we repeated in the manifesto at the 2015 election.

Draft Investigatory Powers Bill

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Lord Bates

Wednesday 4th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

In terms of the judicial role, the judge will have sight of the same information as the Secretary of State currently has—which is the justification. Of course, the judge will be able to subject that justification to testing and review in terms of the process and content and ask them to go back and get more if required. That is certainly what the Secretary of State does at present. Those elements will be important in strengthening that part of the process. Again, however, that can be fleshed out in the pre-legislative scrutiny.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps I may remind my noble friend and the House that there are four parliamentarians who would have wished to engage in these debates but are not able to do so: Airey Neave, the Reverend Robert Bradford, Tony Berry and Ian Gow. I hope it will be remembered by all Members of this House that they have no human rights whatever. They were all extinguished by a lack of the intelligence to prevent their murder.

[Lord Bates]

My noble friend is absolutely right. We talk a lot about liberty and security but in order to enjoy our liberty we must first have security. That is what this is about. I mentioned in the Statement that six terrorist attacks have been thwarted by the outstanding work of our security and law enforcement services over the past year alone. The transparency report which I am publishing here today shows that some 299 people have been arrested in the past year on terrorism-related offences. It shows that the threat is real and the powers are necessary.

Immigration

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Lord Bates

Thursday 15th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

What I would say is that the “Bake Off” result recognises the immense contribution which minorities and immigrants in this country—including second generation and third generation immigrants—continue to make. That is what the Home Secretary said, as I read out at the beginning. She said:

“The people who have moved here down the generations, who have played a massive part in making this country what it is”.

I think that is absolutely right. I think they are both right.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

Does my noble friend not agree that the problem is not one of ethnicity? The problems we face are those that spring from divergent cultures. Would he agree that a society can have only one dominant culture? If there are two cultures striving to be dominant, it will cause social strife.

[Lord Bates]

Where my noble friend is right is that perhaps in the past—the Prime Minister has spoken frequently about this—we have been too silent on what British values actually are. That is one of the things that we need to be more to the forefront about. We have introduced legislation on that and we are going to bring forward more legislation in the counterextremism Bill to talk up the positives of British values rather than those voices that would seek to introduce discord in our society.

Communications Data

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Lord Bates

Wednesday 17th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

They will have the same opportunity as anybody else to participate in the consultation process. There is also a statutory code of practice that has been introduced, and we are open to consultations. We will listen to them but I have to say that at present, when you see the threats that are faced by this country, I am going to listen more to the people who are actually trying to protect us and keep us safe.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, when people come to my noble friend and talk about their human right to communicate in secret, will he advise them that the most important human right is to life? Those of us who have been affected by terrorism remember that. I would not wish others to be needlessly affected in the same way.

[Lord Bates]

My noble friend is absolutely right, and obviously he has deep personal experience of this. There can be no enjoyment of rights without security first, and security is of paramount concern to us. I had an opportunity just last week to visit GCHQ and see for myself the work that was going on there. The people there are dedicated professionals who are working against a fast-moving and intensifying threat. They were asking for the powers to be able to keep us safe, not just from terrorism but from serious and organised crime and from child sexual exploitation. This is a very serious matter and we must make sure that we give people the tools to do the job.

EU: Justice Opt-ins

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Lord Bates

Wednesday 10th December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

It would help if the noble Lord had actually listened to the previous debates. On Monday we had the very same question: his noble friend Lady Smith asked me that question. I replied by referring her to Command Papers 8897 and 8671, which set out in exhaustive detail—enough even to satisfy the level of scrutiny on the opposition Benches—what our position is on every single one of those matters.

[Lord Tebbit]

My Lords, we read in the papers this weekend that our right honourable friend the Prime Minister had assured the Turks that he was in favour of their accession to the European Union. Does the Minister know whether he told the Turks that they would have to accept in whole, completely and absolutely, corpus juris?

[Lord Bates]

They would have to accept the acquis communautaire—that is for sure—before doing that. That is the position they are in.

Calais: Illegal Immigrants

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Lord Bates

Thursday 27th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

The Border Force has been reformed. We now have a stronger border agency and the toughest border regime in the world. We have 200 million people crossing into the country. The reality is that domestic tourists and other travellers there should be aware that this is a major problem and that it is only going to get worse. They have to use the same level of security to protect their vehicles.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

Can the Minister explain why these people arrive here? Surely they have been in France. Are they fleeing from persecution in France? What is wrong with the French state that it does not accept its obligation to look after such people?

[Lord Bates]

My noble friend raises a profound issue, which is that there is a difference in economic performance among countries across Europe. The fact that unemployment in this country is falling dramatically and the economy is growing, and that the opposite is so in France, is acting as a pull factor into this country.

Parliament Square: Occupy Protests

Debate between Lord Tebbit and Lord Bates

Tuesday 28th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

The noble Lord will be aware that as a result of passing the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011, which this House did, the Home Office published specific guidance, which I have here and which I will place a copy of in the Library, stipulating exactly what was permitted, what was not permitted, what approval needed to be sought and even stating on page nine the enforcement actions which we would ask the police to do. Having done that, and having published it in this place, the police deserve our support.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

Will my noble friend take to the police my feelings, at least, of congratulation to them on doing a difficult job rather well? The easiest way to reduce the manpower required would be for these objectionable people to cease their objectionable claim to occupy part of what is public land.

[Lord Bates]

I am very happy to convey the sentiments of my noble friend to the police on the role that they do, which is incredibly difficult. The point has to be reiterated that one of the reasons that the police are taking the actions that they are, and why we passed the legislation that we did, was to ensure that Parliament Square is available for those who want to come to make a peaceful protest as part of a democratic society in which we want to live.