Education and Skills Act 2008

Lord Tebbit Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I agree about the advantages and benefits that could come from schools involving their pupils in decisions affecting them and the school. No one will know better than the noble Baroness the extent to which that happens, given the large number of schools—I think 95 per cent of schools—that have school councils. Many governing bodies have pupils as associate members. I know the noble Baroness would like to go further and faster on that, and we had a good debate about it during the Education Bill. I agree with her in that, where schools want to find ways of involving and encouraging children, I would very much support that. Where the Government and the noble Baroness parted company during the Education Bill was over making that a requirement and compulsory in both primary and secondary schools. However, the principle of involving children is an important one.

[Lord Tebbit]

My Lords, would my noble friend like to consider that, as we have had more and more of this sort of guff promoted through the education system, the standards of education, knowledge and discipline of children at school have steadily fallen. Would it not be a good idea to get back to the idea that teachers teach, pupils learn and that one has to learn to take orders before one can give orders?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, if my noble friend had been able to sit in on some of our extremely lengthy deliberations on the Education Bill, particularly as we ground through Committee in the Moses Room, where all those present were extremely resilient in the hours they put into debating it, he would know that a significant part of the current Education Bill has precisely the sort of measure that he would welcome—giving greater authority to teachers to teach. We all know that orderly environments are environments where children are safer, and environments in which children are safer are those where they can learn better. Therefore, I completely accept the need for an orderly environment. What I do not accept is that there is necessarily an either/or between looking after the interests of children and wanting to make sure that they learn in an orderly environment. It is possible to do both.