Thames Tideway Tunnel

Debate between Lord Stoddart of Swindon and Lord De Mauley

Tuesday 15th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, Ofwat has ensured that the regulatory ring-fence in Thames Water’s licence was tightened following its acquisition by Macquarie. The ring-fence licence conditions on Thames Water already include a condition requiring Thames Water to ensure that its dividend policy will not impair the company’s ability to finance its functions. As for alternatives to the tunnel, studies have looked at all kinds of alternatives over the past decade but none has shown a viable cheaper solution that would simultaneously address the current sewer overflow problems within a decade, deliver value for money and meet environmental objectives.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

My Lords, this project has been known about for decades, I imagine, but over the past 10 years Thames Water has paid out £3.5 billion to shareholders. Should it not have known that that sort of money should have been saved to provide this essential ring system in London? Why should every customer of Thames Water pay for this project? Would it not be better if Thames Water did not pay any dividends for the next 10 years at the rate that they paid in 2012, and that covered the whole of the cost of the new project?

[Lord De Mauley]

What an interesting suggestion, my Lords. The standard model in the water sector is for customers to pay the financing costs of the company’s capital expenditure on underground assets together with a charge to reflect expenditure required to keep them in a serviceable state. I do not think that we would find investors if we were not able to finance it in this way.

European Communities (Amendment) Act 1993

Debate between Lord Stoddart of Swindon and Lord De Mauley

Wednesday 25th April 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

I am a little puzzled by what the noble Lord has just said. He appeared to say that we do not need to converge and that there is no requirement for us to do so. Is that what he said, or have I misunderstood him?

[Lord De Mauley]

There is no requirement to converge, but we none the less believe that we should honour our legal commitments.

I think the gist of what the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, said is that we should not be contributing to the EU budget. The UK remains a committed member of the European Union. However, it is unacceptable for the Commission to impose an inflation-busting budget increase for the 2013 EU budget when Governments across Europe are making difficult decisions on public spending, and we will be pressing for a more realistic budget that recognises the economic reality across Europe.

The noble Lord also suggested that there was no accountability for EU spending. For the 17th successive year, the European Court of Auditors is unable to grant an unqualified positive opinion on the EU accounts. That is entirely unacceptable. The UK Government demand concrete action by the Commission and member states to improve EU financial management.

I am just coming to the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Stamford, and perhaps he will let me have a go at his initial questions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, no, I cannot answer that question. The noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, asked what would be the repercussions if the House voted against this Motion this evening. The result would be that the Government would not have the statutory authority to submit the information that forms the basis of the convergence programme. The UK would therefore breach its obligations under the EU treaties, which could lead to infraction proceedings brought by the Commission under Article 258 of the treaty, for failure “to fulfil an obligation”. As I have said before, the Government take their legal obligations seriously.

It is worth saying that a strong Europe is in the UK’s economic interests. The Government want to contribute to a strong, prosperous Europe, while safeguarding our interests.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

Can the Minister explain what would happen if Parliament decided that it did not want to obey this particular instruction or law under the treaty, and infraction proceedings took place? Is it possible for the United Kingdom to be fined? If it refused to pay the fine, what would then happen?

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, as I said, we would be in breach and subject to infraction proceedings and, yes, I am sure that we would be subject to a fine. I do not want to speculate on what would happen if we did not pay it.

There were a number of questions that I have been unable to answer, including the recent question posed by the noble Lord, Lord Davies. I will, of course, write to noble Lords with answers to those questions.

It is right that we share our budgetary and economic plans with the European Commission and other member states through the convergence programme and our national reform programme. This is a key step in the European semester process. These plans are provided after the Budget is presented to Parliament, and the Budget makes clear that Britain will earn its way in the world. It shows our commitment to fiscal consolidation and economic growth and, along with the OBR’s forecast, it forms the basis of the UK’s convergence programme.

European Union: Debts

Debate between Lord Stoddart of Swindon and Lord De Mauley

Tuesday 8th June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, I quite agree with the noble Lord.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

Is the noble Lord aware that people simply will not understand why Britain has to make a contribution to the bailout of a member of the eurozone when the United Kingdom is not a member of that zone? What would our potential liability in a total bailout have been had we been members of the euro?

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, the €60 billion euro element of the total €500 billion package is available in the existing EU budget, without a change in legislation, for any member state to drawn on. It is not confined to the euro area. While we declined to participate in the €440 billion element, we cannot and should not simply walk away. A strong and stable euro is in the United Kingdom’s national interest. More than 40 per cent of our exports are to the euro area, and I am sure the noble Lord would agree that it would be unwise to jeopardise that.