Subsidiarity Assessment: Seasonal Workers (EUC Report)

Lord Stoddart of Swindon Excerpts

Wednesday 20th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Roper, for introducing this debate and for his Motion, which I shall support if there is a vote tonight. It is not my usual practice to congratulate the committee of which he is the chairman; I usually have a lot of criticism. I think that the last time I was able to praise it was for its masterly report on the Maastricht treaty—or it may have been on the Single European Act. However, I congratulate it on its watchfulness and on being prepared to use the one clause of the Lisbon treaty that was any good to put the point of view of this House on the directive.

The directive is long and detailed, so the noble Lord’s explanation of it was very useful. It is entirely correct that he and the committee should challenge it on the grounds that it does not comply with the principles of subsidiarity. His Motion should receive support from all quarters of the House.

The admission of third-country nationals is surely a matter for nation states and not the European Union. The trouble with the Union is that it seems increasingly to want to intervene and interfere in every nook and cranny of national life. It must be confronted on this and I am glad that we are doing something about it tonight. Who comes to this country or any other country, where they come from, why they are here and what they can do is none of the EU’s business; it is absolutely for national Governments and national law. I am glad to hear that the Government are not acceding to the directive, because it would place restrictions on employers and transfer to the European Union powers that it does not already have.

I hope that the Select Committee will continue to get tough. It has a wonderful opportunity to do so. In the face of the welter of initiatives and power grabs that have been coming from the European Commission and the European Parliament since the implementation of the Lisbon treaty, it will be more than ever necessary for it to be watchful. As it now recommends, it should be tough and use the provisions of the Lisbon treaty that allow national parliaments, in particular this Parliament, to make comments and to try to alter or have withdrawn matters that are coming from the Union.

Unfortunately, this debate does not allow me to make a protest about scrutiny override—or perhaps it does. I was concerned that the Government used the scrutiny override to accede to the European investigation order.

[Lord Roper]

The Government have decided to opt in to the matter, but that was not an override of the scrutiny. We have not completed scrutiny. Scrutiny of the directive is continuing. It has not been agreed yet.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

I see. Perhaps it is to be agreed. That means that Parliament will have a say beforehand. I am very pleased to hear that.

There is plenty more that I would like to say in this debate, but it is a specific debate and I hope that we will be able to discuss the European Union and our future in it when the sovereignty Bill comes forward. We will have a lot to say but, in the mean time, I hope that the European Union Select Committee will keep up its observations, control and what have you of all the matters coming from the European Union that are not in this country’s interests.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Neville-Jones]

I would hope, given that this is the first test for the European Commission, that it would take note of the reservations being expressed in a number of parliaments of the European Union, irrespective of whether there are enough for it to be obliged to take notice. There needs to be further discussion in the European Union. If we have one of those situations in which the formal requirement has not been fulfilled but nevertheless it is clear that there are reservations, this is a moment when the Commission should be given pause to think again about the direction in which it is trying to go. I cannot anticipate what the result of that debate might be, but I hope that there would be one.

I can say that, irrespective of what that discussion would lead to, the United Kingdom will not be bound by this directive. We have not opted in and we have no plans to consider so doing after adoption. In the rather unlikely event that there was some consideration of that possibility at a future date, there is no doubt that the Government would take full account of the committee’s view on subsidiarity at that time.

[Lord Stoddart of Swindon]

Will the Minister clear up one point? As I understand it, the Government are not going to oppose the Motion of the noble Lord, Lord Roper, today. Undoubtedly, the Motion will therefore be passed. But suppose that the Government did not agree with the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Roper—then what? The Lisbon treaty refers to national parliaments, not national governments. Can we have an assurance that if the Government disagreed with a Motion coming from the European Select Committee, Parliament would be allowed to make the decision unwhipped?

[Baroness Neville-Jones]

My Lords, clearly I did not make myself clear enough; I hoped that I had dealt with this point in response to the noble Lord, Lord Inglewood. It follows from the Government’s position on the sovereignty of Parliament that Parliament’s view on subsidiarity would trump—would come ahead of—the view that we would take on substance. I hope that that is clear.