Transport System: Failings

Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington (CB)]

My Lords, I also speak in the gap and thank noble Lords for allowing me to do so. I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Snape, on this debate. I will not be talking about railways, buses or anything in relation to that; I shall be talking about drones. We are on the verge of a massive impact of the use of drones in the civil context. We have had it in the military context, of course, in Ukraine, Israel and the like, and there is a real need here to bring the CAA together with the Ministry of Transport.

Here, I should declare my interest, as listed in the register, in general aviation and associated business interests. A number of experiments and systems have been used over the past three to four months in the north-east of England, and they have not been very successful at all. A pilot scheme, a corridor from Wansbeck to Alnwick to Berwick, has affected general aviation in such a way that other aircraft cannot fly. Drones were going to be used five to 15 times a day, but because of weather it did not happen. We are now going back to another kind of pilot scheme, along the same route and along the River Tyne, which will be conducted for six months. It will affect general aviation in a major way. Looking ahead, drones will be used extensively and there is therefore a need to put together a strategy that delivers sensibly and safely.

Over the years, a lot of work has been done on aircraft safety, and the conclusion reached is that any aircraft that hits organic matter—birds, for example—will probably survive, but if it hits a drone is very unlikely to survive at all; the result would be catastrophic. We have here something new, and it is going to happen and will affect us all. Speaking as a pilot—my friend and colleague the Minister is also a pilot—I can say that this issue really needs to be addressed. The potential is massive, so the issues need to be sorted out and the pilot schemes need to be done in a way that is satisfactory to all.

Drones

Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right: he pointed out that specific issue, which I have taken up directly with officials. I would ask him also to take part in the consultation. We will be raising his specific point directly with manufacturers.

[Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as president of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association and the holder of a current commercial pilot’s licence. I flew myself down here—safely—today. There is an answer in relation to controlled airspace around Heathrow and Gatwick. When nobody can go into controlled airspace without authority, surely a quick answer is to prohibit any drones in that area?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord obviously speaks from experience in this area. He will be aware that the CAA has a specific regime around the commercial operation of drones. We are looking at these particular regulations to see how they may be extended. As I said, we have a wide-ranging consultation and we wish to wait for the results of that.

Police Service: New Governance Structure

Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington Excerpts

Thursday 1st November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington]

My Lords, I should also like to congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Henig, on securing this key debate. I declare my interests as chair of the Independent Commission on the Future of Policing in England and Wales and as a former serving police officer and former commissioner of the Metropolitan Police.

As we have heard, over the past 15 years policing in England and Wales, in partnership with others, has been highly successful. If change aims to bolster this success, I, for one, welcome it. However, change must not simply be made for the sake of change. In addition, it requires the buy-in from those most affected: namely, the public, the police service and key policing partners.

I, and, I am sure, all in your Lordships’ House, accept that in a time of austerity and budget cuts, from which the police should not be exempt, change is inevitable. My concern is that the manner in which change has been implemented has been very detrimental to the morale of those working within the police service. I should point out that this is not simply my opinion but something that has been highlighted in surveys and meetings, to name but two methods, undertaken by the commission. They started in May and the next survey is due to be released imminently.

While I welcome efforts aimed at making the police service more accountable to the public we serve—I am sure we all welcome those steps—I am yet to be convinced that the elections for police and crime commissioners under the supplementary vote system, which many people in England and Wales are not fully familiar with, are best placed to deliver this. This, however, is my personal opinion and I should like to assure critics of the commission’s work that our findings in regard to this matter will be firmly led by evidence. I invite anybody who questions the independence of the commission to look at the website to see who is involved in it and to note the 23 academic institutions ranging from Harvard University and the LSE to Oxford and Cambridge Universities which are underpinning this work academically. Needless to say, there are Members of your Lordships’ House who are also on the commission, and I would not ever want to doubt their independence.

As I mentioned during debates held in this House pertaining to the passage of the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill, prior to it receiving Royal Assent, I have serious concerns that the term,

“have regard to strategic policing requirement”,

does not fully mitigate against the risk of local policing issues being put before national policing issues and priorities. The commission has been around the country listening to Victim Support; talking to members of the public; talking to members of police authorities, police forces and the like; and taking evidence from people in this House, including former Home Secretaries, and the head of the Independent Police Complaints Commission, to mention a few. There is a very real fear among many people about what some referred to as “headline-grabbing” policing initiatives that will improve a police and crime commissioner’s chance of securing re-election. I would be very sorry—as indeed would your Lordships’ House—to see the introduction of police and crime commissioners undermining efforts being made up and down the country to protect young women from grooming and address cases of domestic violence in a manner that continues to put the victim first. That is absolutely essential.

I also have concerns that there would appear to be a lack of measures in place preventing private security companies lobbying police and crime commissioners as candidates and when they are appointed. Furthermore, in light of comments made at a meeting yesterday in regard to police and crime commissioners, I have concern that data available to them could easily be misconstrued. As part of that, only 25% of recorded crime in their area will be subjected to independent analysis, and there is a lack of standardisation in data interpretation throughout England and Wales.

We hear claims that police and crime commissioners will facilitate chief constables in focusing on fighting crime. That is difficult to envisage at this stage. As noble Lords have heard, there has been a record 40% reduction in crime in the past 15 years. In some areas, the reduction is more. The question has to be asked, will the changes help that reduction to continue, as the noble Lord, Lord Prescott, said? I and the commission have heard from many senior officers who continue to express concern over the lack of clear understanding pertaining to the issue of corporate sole, and I reiterate that there is still a very real chance that operational independence could be affected in respect of that. We heard from my previous chairman, the noble Lord, Lord Harris, about the lack of resources going in to back up the police commissioners in their areas. I and others think that this could undermine the result of the introduction of the new policing governance structures.

From the feedback gleaned from these many meetings, which will continue until spring next year and are held as part of the commission’s evidence-gathering initiatives, it has become apparent that there is a clear lack of training for police and crime panel members. If he would be so kind, the Minister needs to take note of the guidelines in relation to the panel, which state that members must have the “skills and experience” required to function effectively. We have found out that some are having no training, and this is very much driven by what I would refer to as a postcode lottery. Although there is still more work to be done, we on the commission fear that there may well be a lack of people fully trained to take up the posts.

I should like to end by saying that your Lordships’ House needs to understand, and has the promise, that this independent commission will continue to monitor and assess the roles of the commissioners, as it will continue to take evidence from and assess those people—victims and others on the street—who need to be listened to in terms of what the future of policing will be.