European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Sterling of Plaistow Excerpts

Monday 20th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, this is not the first time that we have considered this subject, and it is worth remembering that the last time, it was Prime Minister Wilson who decided to hold a referendum, for very similar reasons to those David Cameron had. On behalf of my own firm, I was very keen on joining what is now the European Union in 1975. Exactly like colleagues in this House who are entrepreneurs, I thought it was a great trading area and a great opportunity. I saw a great many of the votes because it took place at Earls Court Olympia, which happened to be part of my company at that time.

I have spent a lot of time in Brussels. I started to go there in 1975—I have been many times since, and, along with many other people here, I have negotiated there. The advantage of a House like this, with its experience, wisdom and knowledge, is that many of us have friends in Brussels in music, art and education, and we share enormous friendship between us. However, what we are discussing today is Brexit. I do not know about anyone else—the noble Lord, Lord Hennessy, is much better at this than I am—but as far as I am concerned we are taking a view for the next 200 years. We are not taking a view of what is happening in one month’s or two months’ time. If we go back historically, for over 350 years we played the part of power broker between France and Germany.

Someone mentioned foreign policy after World War I. We have not had a foreign policy since almost after World War II. We know what happened at that time, and then what did we do? We won the war with allies but we lost the peace. We also had the terrible situation of having to live with losing an empire at the same time. People forget with the Common Market that between 1960 and 1970 we were in a dreadful mess economically; the great days were over. Those who think that somehow or other it has been sweet running right the way through should look back on the history of that period. I am afraid we reckoned we were a bunch of losers and we would somehow or other be much better off if we got together with Europe. It is only of late, as recently as three Parliaments ago, that a Queen’s Speech said in effect that we must re-engage with the world, which is really the role that we have been playing.

As I say, I have spent a great deal of time in the EU. So have many noble Lords, but I have spent most of my life as a businessman, negotiating right the way through. Looking practically at these negotiations, the role that the Government are playing is quite right. We must remember that the Prime Minister made the comment that we want to finish off by dealing with partners. I hate the word “deal”. You negotiate with partners and friends; you do not do deals with them because you want more ongoing business with them in the years to come. Therefore a clean break—pulling right out of the internal market, which is not a single market—gives one a much better position from which to negotiate for the future.

People always talk about “European citizens”. They do not exist. There is no such thing as a European citizen; there are citizens of nation states. You are a citizen of one of 28 states, not a citizen of Europe. That is often forgotten. Ultimately, the only thing I have ever believed in looking back historically is that if you do not have economic strength, you have no strength anywhere. The collapse of the USSR demonstrated that in spades.

I came out publicly during the referendum because Michael Gove and Boris Johnson said to me, “Plenty of politicians are speaking but no industrialists. Will you come out publicly and say why you are going to be doing what you’re doing?” I truly believe that we have a great opportunity with the rest of the world. My own company, which has been around for nearly 200 years, has been operating in the Far East since about 1840. There is no novelty in doing business out there.

When I told friends that I was going to vote for Brexit, I was almost ostracised. People had a real go at me at dinner parties, saying, “What the hell are you doing?”, so I told them how I felt about it. But what is very interesting is that now that time has gone by, friends in the City, in business and in major companies, one after the other, are saying, “I think we can handle this. I think there are ways in which we can change it”. I happen to know that in some ways, in areas such as the container trade, transport and tourism, it is going to be even better for us. We will increasingly see an attitude of, “Let’s get on with it. We’re doing it for the very long run”. I make the observation that I think it is the right thing to show our friends in Europe—I use the word “friends”—that we really mean change, and we are going to do it.

Let me read something to noble Lords:

“The EU’s founders grew up through depression, war and occupation”.


On that, I have the advantage of my age. I was born in the depression and I certainly grew up in a time of war, but we were not occupied. If we had been, I would have been dust.

“Their successors, who did not, must now think afresh about the continent and its needs. The past holds an important lesson: integration prospered when growth and employment mattered more than unfettered capital movements and when fiscal policy counted for more than monetary policy. Today’s leaders will also need to discover something of the farsightedness of earlier generations. Like them, they will need to show that the union can help nations, not hurt them, and that capitalism and democracy can be reconciled. This time they have to do it in a globalising world and in a union with five times more members than the original group. It will take a real effort of historical imagination and reinvention. But without it, the EU is living on borrowed time”.


That was written by Professor Mazower, who is a professor of history at Columbia University in the United States.

In the long term, we will be able to live happily with Europe—and defend it, as we did in 1940 and onwards; defence is a huge factor. I would like to feel that it will be able to reinvent itself and we will all get on together in the centuries to come, not next month.