European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Spicer and Lord Bridges of Headley

Report: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 25th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords, I enter one word of caution. The choice might not be between Parliament and Ministers, but between Ministers and civil servants. To change it to “necessary”, one has to use judgment about that word just as much as the previous one.

[Lord Bridges of Headley (Con)]

My Lords, I make a small contribution, having been at the birth of the Bill—if one can be a midwife to a Bill. I always saw the purpose of the Bill as delivering the orderly withdrawal of this country from the European Union and ensuring that we have a coherent statute book on the day we leave. I do not want to detain your Lordships, but as I said at Second Reading and as I still believe, it is imperative that we get the balance right between the powers of the Executive and parliamentary sovereignty. As the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, so rightly said and others have commented, if we take the view that the referendum vote was about Parliament taking back control, it hardly seems right that excessive control be given to Ministers of the Crown.

I had many misgivings about this issue, and I am most grateful to noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, for sparing the time to talk to me about it. I have considered it. Your Lordships need to consider it in the round—the round being all the other limitations that currently exist on Ministers—and, most importantly, the amendment my noble friend the Minister is making to this point, which I believe addresses many of the concerns. All I ask your Lordships at this point is to consider this: are the Government acting in a reasonable way to ensure they have the powers necessary to deliver a smooth and orderly Brexit? That is the simple question in my mind. I believe that the Minister has moved enough and that he should be given our support. I completely understand the views of the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, and my noble friend Lord Cormack on this point. I fear we just differ now on how far the Government have moved.

Brexit: Negotiation Programme

Debate between Lord Spicer and Lord Bridges of Headley

Monday 20th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Spicer]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they will produce their programme for negotiating the United Kingdom’s exit from the European Union.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Bridges of Headley) (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister’s speech at Lancaster House on 17 January and the subsequent White Paper articulate our objectives and the rationale for our approach to the forthcoming negotiations. We will trigger Article 50 next Wednesday, 29 March.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords, would my noble friend confirm that this is not a planted Question? I had absolutely no idea a month ago that the Government were going to choose this day to announce the date of the application under Article 50. Perhaps I may press him on one issue, which is that of reversibility. I assume that, once the application has been put in under Article 50, it is not reversible.

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

My Lords, I shall repeat what I have said before. It is a matter of firm policy that, once Article 50 is issued, it will not be revoked, and I can also assure all noble Lords that the Government are indeed intent on delivering the result of the referendum. The United Kingdom will leave the EU and, to quote from the first line of the White Paper:

“We do not approach these negotiations expecting failure, but anticipating success”.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Spicer and Lord Bridges of Headley

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 27th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

My Lords, the Government’s position is very clear. We are absolutely going to stand by the instruction given to us by the British people to leave the European Union. That was the decision and that is the Government’s policy, and that is what it will remain.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

Is not the real reason people are calling for a second referendum that one side lost and they do not like it? Then, might it not be the case that somebody loses another referendum and we would have to have a third one? Indeed, we might even have to have a fourth referendum to decide which referendum was the real thing.

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I agree with my noble friend, and this is why we have the prospect of a “neverendum”.

Brexit: Article 50

Debate between Lord Spicer and Lord Bridges of Headley

Thursday 2nd February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Spicer]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government on what date Article 50 will be invoked.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Bridges of Headley) (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister has set out the timetable for triggering Article 50 by 31 March, and we remain committed to that timetable.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords, I realise that a much more interesting Question I could have asked would have been, “Where is it all going to end?”—but the Minister would have found that rather difficult to answer. May I instead ask him this question: given that the British people have voted to come out of the European Union, and that the elected House of Commons has voted to begin the process, is there very much left for this House to do, other than to give safe passage to the Bill when it comes before us?

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

Actually, I think there is a considerable amount for this House to do, so I beg to differ. I am very grateful for what this House continues to do and has already done, both on the Floor of the House and in the considerable work that has been undertaken by your Lordships’ committees, on subjects ranging from acquired rights to fisheries and financial services, which has in a short time made a considerable contribution not just to the debate but to thinking in government. I applaud the work that has been undertaken; long may it continue.

The Process for Triggering Article 50

Debate between Lord Spicer and Lord Bridges of Headley

Tuesday 24th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

The noble Lord makes a good point which I endorse and echo. Let me repeat what I said at the Dispatch Box last week and the Prime Minister said in her speech. It is absolutely in our interests, as the noble Lord has implied, that we continue to see a strong, stable and prosperous European Union, and that we continue to collaborate closely and co-operate wherever possible. The intent behind the approach the Prime Minister set out in is to form a new partnership along those lines. It is therefore not in our interests to see instability across Europe nor to see Europe, in the words of the noble Lord, falling apart in some way.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

The answer to the Burkeian point is surely that we have not been elected to anything. On that basis, it would be unthinkable for us to frustrate the will of the people at whatever stage.

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I am delighted that consensus is breaking out between this side of the House and the Benches opposite on this point. I do hope that other noble Lords will bear that in mind.

Brexit: Green Paper

Debate between Lord Spicer and Lord Bridges of Headley

Monday 9th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

How is one more clear about the objectives than the Prime Minister was yesterday, which is to get out of the European Union as soon as possible, which includes the single market?

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

As the Prime Minister made clear yesterday, a range of options is open to us and we are looking for the best possible deal for this country.

Brexit: Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010

Debate between Lord Spicer and Lord Bridges of Headley

Tuesday 13th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I am sorry that I am being coy, my Lords. We have set out where Parliament will indeed be playing a very crucial role in the repeal of the European Communities Act, and Parliament—and this House—has been doing a tremendous amount of very useful scrutiny and work in the EU Select Committee and elsewhere. We will indeed look at what steps will be taken through the process, but I am not able to go further at this stage.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

Is not the essence of the European Union the single market? If you leave one, you leave the other and, for that matter, if you leave the other, you leave the one.

Council of the European Union: United Kingdom Presidency

Debate between Lord Spicer and Lord Bridges of Headley

Wednesday 20th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I think that that was a decision taken by the noble Lord, Lord Hill, and I shall leave it to him to explain it. We have now replaced the noble Lord and I am looking to the future, not always to the past. We have replaced the noble Lord, Lord Hill, with an extremely experienced diplomat, Sir Julian King.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords, surely the Government are right on this, leaving aside the question of timing. We cannot on the one hand plan to come out of the European Union and at the same time claim to represent its longer-term interests. It goes far deeper than just embarrassment, as the Opposition said.

[Lord Bridges of Headley]

I agree. That is why I cited what was said to the House’s European Union Committee itself, which cited exactly that point.