Business of the House

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Thursday 4th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord True]

I am sure that my noble friend is right but really I am not so interested in the politics of the matter. Of course that is the case, but it is the case of life and of democracy. The cry of democracy is that the people choose and the Government change. That is the glory of freedom. What is going on in the House of Commons, with your Lordships being suborned to assist in it, is that those who the people of this country did not choose are trying to use the procedures of both Houses to deny the people of this country what they actually did choose, which was to leave the European Union.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

One of the reasons why the Opposition are using the strange technique that my noble friend has exposed is in search of the word “compromise”. Surely that is something that we are going to have to look at later in the proceedings. That is because in a binary situation, you cannot have a compromise: you are either in the European Union or you are out of it. You particularly cannot reach a compromise with someone who is an extreme socialist and is using that as his red line.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Spicer Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 31st January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher. I remember well partnering her late husband in tennis in West Virginia when we played against the American Senate. He was, certainly in private, a very charming man. I also agree with her about the dangers of Russia, but I am not going to talk about that now.

It is clear from this debate that your Lordships’ House is not exactly rabidly Eurosceptic. I am, though, and perhaps I owe the House some explanation of that. I start with what has become the customary homage to the speech of the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leeds. He is of course right that economics is not the only matter affecting this debate, although they are not completely unimportant or irrelevant. When you are dealing with a protectionist trade bloc, which the European Union is, it is bound to have ultimately a negative effect on your trade and economy. There is certainly a read-across there.

Much more important, and the reason why I think we should get out of the European Union, is democracy. The European Union is undemocratic for two reasons. It does not have a mechanism for true democracy, which requires a direct relationship between the electorate and the Government. The electorate chooses a party, preferably in private, and votes it in. There is such a connection between the electorate and the Government that the electors, having elected their Government, are willing to pay allegiance to them. There is a synergy about the whole thing. In Europe, the matter is aggravated by the fact that the laws are made on the whole by the European court, which is undemocratic and relies on the acquis communautaire for its inspiration. The acquis is quite clear that it requires the court to make judgments in one direction, towards a federal state of Europe, that is irreversible.

Some people say that this process can be reformed. In the foreseeable future at least, that is highly unlikely. Take, for example, Britain. If we were to go back into the European Union, it is absolutely unimaginable that the court would not insist that sterling would be joined to the single currency, and quite rightly so. You cannot have a single market for ever without a single currency. That would be the loss of Britain’s freedom, which is involved in the sovereignty of Parliament and in no one Parliament binding another. That would just go. The trend in that case would be anti-democratic so far as this country is concerned.

I would like to refer to a speech made yesterday by the noble Lord, Lord Winston. It is something that has troubled me quite a lot about the attack that is made on people who think, like I do, that the nation state is the best unit of democracy. I will read one paragraph from it. He said that,

“Andrea Sella talks about a maternal ancestor. He is not Jewish but his ancestor was. Apparently she called him early in the morning when the result of the referendum became clear. She said, her voice choking with emotion:

‘How can these people forget so soon where nationalism leads you?’”—[Official Report, 30/1/18; col. 1521.]

The innuendo is clear. I could turn the whole thing on its head and say that World War II, for instance, was brought to a halt and peace was established by the nation state against the pan-European movement led by Germany. That absolutely turns on its head an argument that is constantly used against people such as myself and Eurosceptics, and quite wrongly so.

European Council

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

Was there any agreement, either in the margins of the meeting or in the meeting itself, as to what would happen if the full terms of Article 50 were applied in the event of there being no agreement in the discussions?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The discussions in relation to us leaving the EU were very constructive. We have now agreed to move on to phase 2 and to start to talk about our future relationship, which is extremely welcome.

European Union and Canada: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Thursday 27th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Livingston of Parkhead (Con)]

My Lords—

European Council

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Monday 24th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I think that with his questions the noble Lord has identified the scale of the challenges we have ahead. The Prime Minister was very clear about that: indeed, it was in the Statement I have just read out. We know that it will be a challenge, that there will be difficult moments, and that it will require give and take. Obviously we are at only the very beginning of this process. We are looking to work constructively with countries across the world in order to come up with trade deals. We will of course learn from the experience we have had as part of the EU in terms of the negotiations we have been involved in there, but we are also striking out on our own. As I have said, there is no precedent for a country leaving the EU so read-across from other negotiations is not directly comparable. We will of course aim to get the best deal for the UK with the EU, but also with other countries around the world.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords, was there any discussion at the Council of the City of London? In particular, was there discussion of the restrictive measures being planned by some EU members, had we intended to stay in the EU, to bring down the City of London from its present dominant position?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I mentioned, our discussion of Brexit and the UK’s position was not a formal agenda item, so it was not discussed with all the other member states. Obviously issues like the City of London and the Irish border show that there are a lot of key issues that we need to think about. We have seen in responses that I have made here and that other Ministers have made that we want to ensure that all these issues are talked about, and that we come to the best outcome that we can.

Aviation: Sustainable Fuel

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd March 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Courtown]

My Lords, as I mentioned in my Answer, we will be going out to consultation on this subject later this year, where we will look at increased targets for suppliers to provide long-term certainty to industry and to meet our climate change targets. We will also make biofuels more sustainable by increasing the supply of waste-based biofuels. We will also support investment in renewable aviation fuels by including it in the RTFO. We will also look at possible further competitions on top of the one already held, looking specifically at the jet biofuel issue.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords, it sounds as if these excellent new fuels will be polluting our airports rather less in future, so can we bring forward the Heathrow decision?

[The Earl of Courtown]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Ahmad answered this question at great length last week or the week before. I do not think that there is anything more that I can add to it.

European Council

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Monday 22nd February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

Yes, I agree with the noble Lord. We have to acknowledge the foreign investment that comes into this country and into Wales, a lot of which is from European Union countries. We benefit tremendously from our trade as part of that single market, and we would put that very severely at risk if we were to leave.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My noble friend has just talked about a legally binding document protecting our interests. How do the Government then deal with the question of the acquis communautaire and the fact that the so-called watertight legislative protection of our rights in the past has never survived challenges in the court? These matters have to be addressed if some credibility is to be given to this so-called legally binding document.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

In the interests of time and the fact that many people want to get in, I shall say to my noble friend Lord Spicer what I said to my noble friend Lord Lawson. The Prime Minister has secured, for the first time ever, a return of powers to a nation state. That has never happened before. He has secured that and we can now take advantage of it—something that we have never been able to do before.

European Union: United Kingdom Renegotiation

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Thursday 4th February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am grateful to the noble Lord, both for his contribution and for picking up on my misuse of “Commission” when I should have been saying “Council”. He offers a great deal more experience of the European Union and its institutions, the European Council and indeed the United Nations. I am happy to confirm what he just said, particularly his comparison to Denmark. What is proposed in this document is very much in line with what is in place for Denmark, which has existed for over 20 years and remains absolutely legally binding.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister says that we will never be part of a European superstate, but what about the acquis communautaire? It is intrinsic to the treaty and has to be addressed. What about the court, which always supports the acquis? What about the polemics of this? The draft agreement in front of us today has in it the objective of not only a single economic state but a banking centralised state, and therefore a fiscal centralised state, and therefore a federal state. The BBC hinted last night that there was a secret plan to deal with these issues, which are fundamental so would require major treaty changes. If that is true, I would be very interested to hear more about this, as I am sure the House would. Is such a plan being worked up on the side? If so, when will we hear about it?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

What is recognised in the documents that have been published is that treaty change may be required in some areas but, until that treaty change occurs, the text will be legally binding; as the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, said, it will be deposited in the United Nations. This is not about avoiding treaty change but about legally binding irreversible decisions, acknowledging that, where treaty change is necessary, that will happen at the appropriate point. The decision document—the first and lengthiest of the documents published by Mr Tusk—makes clear that the European Court of Justice will be required to take account of that document when it is considering any of its judgments.

Syria: Foreign Affairs Committee Report

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

Are the Russians showing any willingness to become involved in aircraft co-ordination over Syria?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

Yes, there is co-ordination in place.

Housing Associations: Right to Buy

Lord Spicer Excerpts

Tuesday 9th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Stowell of Beeston) (Con)]

My noble friends are competing with each other. I do not think that we have heard from my noble friend Lord Spicer for a while.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Spicer]

How many empty dwellings are there these days? When I was Minister for Housing, there used to be one million. Should not some of those be sold off, if appropriate?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, we have significantly dealt with the issue of empty properties. I shall get my noble friend the exact figures on the number of empty properties that have been brought back into use, but I can confirm to him that it is significant.