Casey Report

Debate between Lord Singh of Wimbledon and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Tuesday 6th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is absolutely right, and I have no doubt that Dame Louise Casey accepts that as well. It runs through her report that there are dangers of stereotyping. The noble Baroness was right to mention Muslim “communities”, because there are many different shades of Muslim belief and it would be wrong to treat them as homogeneous. There are dangers of stereotyping. Dame Louise Casey makes some very good points about the fact that the great majority of people do feel integrated into our society, specifically those of the Muslim religion—I have fallen into my own trap and categorised them together—who feel 91% integrated into Britain according to a recent poll. There are very good examples of them helping other communities; Dame Louise Casey cites, for example, Muslim youths from Bradford going to help in Carlisle when we had the floods late last year and early this year, and there are many examples like that. There are very broad lessons there about successful integration. The challenge is to ensure that the remaining few are fully integrated into our society.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that Dame Louise Casey is to be congratulated on her forthright attack on the political correctness that inhibits us from discussing things that should be discussed, particularly religion, which itself is a complex mix of ethical imperatives, culture—often very dated and negative culture—ritual and superstition? We should be free to discuss those things; it would help greatly. At the same time, I regret that Dame Louise Casey has again pandered to the Abrahamic communities. Hate crime is discussed and commented on without any reference to the other non-Abrahamic communities that suffer, and in particular the Sikhs.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right about the value of Dame Louise Casey’s report. Anybody who knows Dame Louise at all will know how robust she is, and she has said some very valuable things that the Government will go away and consider. As I indicated in repeating the Statement, the report has taken 18 months to put together. Dame Louise conducted more than 800 meetings and considered more than 200 pieces of written evidence. So it is right that we go away and take lessons from all that. The noble Lord referred to hate crime, which of course was touched upon on Friday in a very valuable debate about core British values initiated by the most reverend Primate, which also has great relevance to Dame Louise’s report. It is certainly true that hate crime is not limited to one particular community. As the noble Lord rightly said, it exists across the board. The only thing I would say is that any hate crime is a crime against all of us. That is the important lesson to take away.

Community Cohesion

Debate between Lord Singh of Wimbledon and Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth

Monday 18th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is absolutely right about people coming together to tackle hate crime. I was particularly impressed to hear of a movement called Salaam Shalom in Nottingham, which is supported by the Government, bringing together the Jewish and Muslim faiths. I agree entirely with the noble Baroness about the many excellent role models that we have of Muslim women. She referred to one; we all remember “The Great British Bake Off” and so on. It is time to celebrate the diversity of our society and recognise that when we are united, we are strongest.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, much hate crime arises out of ignorance and suspicion. We all know that in a fog even familiar objects, such as a lamppost or a dustbin, can assume frightening and threatening proportions. Does the Minister agree that a much greater effort needs to be made to remove that ignorance and bring about a much better understanding of what different religions are and what they stand for? Unfortunately, much interfaith dialogue over the years—and I have been involved in it—is just about being nice to people without exploring the actual teachings and finding commonalities on which we can build understanding. Does the Minister agree that the search for commonalities and building on them is essential?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I entirely agree with the noble Lord. He is absolutely right that it is about much more than just coming together and talking to each other; it is about understanding each other better. Many interfaith groups do this very successfully, both in England and in the devolved Administrations. Again, I have asked the department to look at this to see how we can get best practice across the United Kingdom by learning what happens in the entirety of the United Kingdom. However, he is right that we have to conquer ignorance, in the sense of not knowing, in order to move forward on this key issue.