Northern Ireland (Executive Formation and Organ and Tissue Donation) Bill

Lord Sentamu Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 27th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sentamu (CB)]

My Lords, I have just returned from Sierra Leone as chair of Christian Aid to see what this country has achieved there. People there speak with great affection of the actions taken by the UK Government to restore peace—at an absolutely awful time, when people’s hands were being chopped off. Sierra Leone is to go through a general election. Already, there are a lot of fears, but I hope that it will progress in a way that will lead to greater and greater peace in that country.

Edmund Burke, commenting on the French Revolution, said these words:

“The only thing necessary for evil to triumph in the world is that good men do nothing.”


Whenever the Minister has commented on, or introduced a Bill on, Northern Ireland, he speaks with such candour and sensitivity. I thank him for the way in which he handles matters vis-à-vis Northern Ireland.

We have to support the Bill. Organ and tissue donations are vital because medical science has so improved. It is not on for Northern Ireland to be lagging behind the rest of the United Kingdom in this, so I hope that the Bill will get through pretty quickly and be passed.

I admire greatly the noble Lord, Lord Hain, for his work both in Northern Ireland and, more importantly, during the time South Africa was facing a bad apartheid. He resolutely wanted to see things change and improve. I congratulate the noble Lord on that. However, I am slightly puzzled by his question to the Minister around why this Bill has come here instead of the power being with the Secretary of State. My understanding of the law is this: if powers have been devolved by law, nothing can take them back unless a new law is passed. If I were in Northern Ireland, I would not want the Secretary of State suddenly being given greater powers, because it might suggest that we have not quite devolved those powers. They were devolved by an Act of Parliament, and so to intervene in any situation—because of the absence of power-sharing—requires a Bill; it can be done only by a Bill. The Minister and I are tired of hearing endless Bills, but that is the only way to do it, because the Government who are supposed to be working are not really working.

There is one more thing I want to say. When people shoot a police officer while he is training children, it leaves everybody with a chill on their back. No matter what political views you may have, I believe that violence in the end defeats those who want to go by violence. The time has come for all of that to stop. I am glad that, when I came back from Sierra Leone, I saw people protesting, saying, “We are not going back. Enough is enough.” If that is the case, I hope that the good men and women of Northern Ireland will resolve the whole question of why the devolved Government are not doing their job.

The amended protocol, of course, may not have everything in it, but I suggest that we are going towards goods coming out of Great Britain and into Northern Ireland, and vice versa, in exactly the same way, and clarification about goods that are likely to end up in the EU, where we are not in the customs union. Having been involved in the past, for a number of years, in reconciliation around the Drumcree marches, I sincerely hope that the dawn has come—although there may still be a number of questions that will not actually be resolved.

In the end, the only way to prove that a thing is good is if it works. I make a plea to my very good friends in Northern Ireland: if Sierra Leone can begin to find a way not to be ruined by tribalism—it even changed its legislation to allow a third of the people in Parliament to be women, which was not previously the case in that society—and to move forward, surely Northern Ireland ought to do better.

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Lord Sentamu Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 23rd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sentamu (CB)]

My Lords, I apologise for not putting my name down to speak. Having listened to the whole debate, I thought it would be good for your Lordships’ House if I gave a very short contribution, inspired by South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission. The President of South Africa’s address to us yesterday gave me the confidence to contribute briefly to this debate.

First, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Caine, on his speech, which graciously tried to reconcile irreconcilable problems. I also congratulate the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge; the issues he raised and the questions he posed have to be answered. We cannot have a situation in Northern Ireland where those who committed crimes are simply pardoned and not prosecuted. The same situation is not true for England and Wales. Our law would become confused.

I commend the noble Lord, Lord Hain, for his efforts towards achieving the Belfast/Good Friday agreement. The speech of the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, warmed my heart. If the Minister is wise, he will pause this Bill and ask noble Lords such as these to work out what should come before your Lordships’ House. If not, we may pass this Bill but it will not happen in Northern Ireland.

What did we learn from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, chaired by Archbishop Desmond Tutu? There had been a few prosecutions of very high-ranking officials from the security forces, including the former Minister of Law and Order, Adriaan Vlok. He was given a suspended sentence following a plea bargain. Many other such cases were not prosecuted. The victims felt that the Government were strengthening impunity and that the beneficiaries of apartheid had escaped accountability for their actions. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission was set up to try to deal with that feeling. Despite the challenges and limitations, the commission’s decision-making processes and hearings attracted global attention. It was the first commission to hold public hearings at which victims and perpetrators were heard. While amnesties were generally considered inconsistent with national law, the South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission provided a basis for showing that conditional amnesties were a useful compromise, particularly if they helped to secure confessions from perpetrators. If they led to a confession, there was a positive; if they did not, they did not.

This was a major departure from the sort of trial there was at Nuremberg. Although it was built on justice, the methodology was very different. It provided the world with another tool in the struggle against impunity and the search for truth and justice. The regret that Archbishop Desmond Tutu had was that it did not have “justice” in its name. It had “truth and reconciliation”; the truth was found and reconciliation was attempted but, in the end, justice was not delivered.

I took part in the Drumcree reconciliations in Northern Ireland. For me, that was a statement of public policy. Could we not enshrine in law what most people are saying we should not do and pause, like we did with the health Bill in this House, and come back with something slightly more wonderful, as the noble Lord said?