European Council

Lord Ryder of Wensum Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

First, I very much welcome the noble Lord’s welcome for my right honourable friend the Prime Minister’s achievement, from a different perspective from that of the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch. I am obviously very aware of his background and experience in these matters, so am glad to receive it.

On the noble Lord’s point about the rebate in 2005, my understanding is that the other side of that deal, as it were, was supposed to be reform of the CAP, which, sadly, has not been forthcoming. That will cost the taxpayer in the region of, I think, €8.5 billion. From the point of view of wanting to defend the interests of the British taxpayer, I am extremely glad that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has taken a robust line on Britain’s abatement. He was pushed to surrender more of it but felt that to do so would be wrong. I am glad that he resisted that pressure.

[Lord Ryder of Wensum]

My Lords, in the event that Scotland votes next year to become an independent nation, and therefore ceases to be a member of the European Union, can my noble friend confirm that the resources normally allocated to Scotland will be reallocated to the other three partners within the United Kingdom: namely, Northern Ireland, Wales and England?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

My Lords, one thing that is clear in the document that I believe has been published today by constitutional experts looking into some of the implications, were there to be a vote in favour of independence in Scotland, for membership of organisations such as NATO or the European Union is that it is, to say the very least, unclear how things would pan out. However, the assumption that everything would just roll on is certainly questioned. My noble friend is right to highlight those concerns. Difficult and complicated negotiations would need to take place.

EU Council

Lord Ryder of Wensum Excerpts

Monday 2nd July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Strathclyde]

First, my Lords, I thought I had made it pretty clear that the Prime Minister and the Government are not in favour of having an in/out referendum now. It is not the answer right now, but who knows? I would not support one, and I do not think that the Government would, because it is not the right choice to make. The right choice to make is that since Europe is in flux we should see where it ends up and where the relationship changes, if it does. We already have provision, agreed by Parliament, that when power moves from the United Kingdom to Europe there should be a referendum, so referendums should not concern us very much. However, if that relationship changes, perhaps the right thing should be to consult the British people, either in a general election or in a referendum.

As for growth, we were very much part of the group that called for a credible EU growth agenda. The European Council endorsed our growth priorities on Friday. For instance, we secured agreement for the immediate implementation of actions to eliminate unjustified barriers on services. This alone could add 1.6% to EU GDP over the next few years.

[Lord Ryder of Wensum]

My Lords, is not the use of “growth” incredibly mistaken in the context not only of my noble friend’s Statement but of the European Council’s conclusions, which I have before me? Indeed, the first paragraph of the Council’s conclusions states:

“The European Union will continue to do everything necessary to put Europe back on the path of smart … and inclusive growth”.

Perhaps my noble friend can explain the difference between growth and “smart … and inclusive growth”. Furthermore, I would be very grateful to know precisely what the Prime Minister’s definition of growth is, because I have been confused in recent weeks by his understanding of it. Growth in the long term in the European Union can be sustainable only by continuing to liberalise every country within it and by introducing supply-side measures. If my noble friend agrees that the Prime Minister accepts this principle, can he please let us know what supply-side measures the Prime Minister has been trying to persuade his European colleagues to implement in recent weeks?

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I, too, read those words from the conclusions of the Council’s meeting, which say:

“on the path of smart, sustainable and inclusive growth”.

I suspect that in different countries within the EU, it means rather different things. The conclusions go on to say that it should provide,

“a coherent framework for action at national, EU and euro area levels, using all possible levers, instruments and policies”.

It then directs the reader to the annexe.

That leads me to my noble friend’s second question. I entirely agree with him that growth in Europe will come from sustaining, liberalising measures within the European economy. Again, we have been at the forefront of that by arguing for sound money, for spending European money better and more wisely, and wasting less of it, for decentralisation and for reducing bureaucracy. All these measures are the kind of things that have worked in the past and will work again.

Draft House of Lords Reform Bill

Lord Ryder of Wensum Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I am not aware that my right honourable friend said that he would do so. He used words about the will of the House of Commons; and the Parliament Act is of course part of a process that kicks in when the two Houses disagree with each other. It is a well understood process, and although it has perhaps not been well used, it has been used on many occasions. It is always of regret to me when Parliament Acts are used because I believe that, between the two Houses, there must be a better way of reaching agreements.

[Lord Ryder of Wensum]

My Lords, my noble friend has been exceedingly patient. Would it not be wise for us to close this debate on the grounds—on which we are united—that the speech made yesterday by the Deputy Prime Minister showed only a veneer of expertise?

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, I will not be tempted down that road by my noble friend.

Legislative Timetable

Lord Ryder of Wensum Excerpts

Thursday 6th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ryder of Wensum]

Exactly two years ago, on 5 October 2009, at the Conservative Party conference in Manchester, the then shadow Leader of the House of Commons, now its Leader, Sir George Young, stated:

“Conservatives will legislate less, but we will also legislate better. So today I can announce that we will abolish the practice of automatically guillotining government bills”.

Why have Sir George and the Government broken those two promises?

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, on the first point, I am delighted to tell my noble friend that in the first Session of the last Labour Administration, in 2005-06, 4,005 pages of legislation were enacted. So far this Session, which is longer than the 2005-06 one, we have passed only 1,392 pages of legislation. As for automatic timetabling in another place, that is up to the procedures there. However, I understand that most of that timetabling is agreed with the Opposition, very often without a vote.

House of Lords: Reform

Lord Ryder of Wensum Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Higgins]

My Lords, one of the charms of this place is that one can never tell what is going to happen next. Having listened to one remarkable speech after another yesterday, I found it difficult—indeed, impossible—to believe that any elected Chamber would have produced a debate of this quality.

The debate has been helpful in focusing the arguments on both sides. What has emerged clearly is that there is a very large number of arguments against the Bill but fundamentally only two in favour of it, although I have waited with anticipation to hear another. The first argument is that an elected Chamber would be more democratic. I believe that that is fundamentally untrue. We already have a democratic constitutional system which is 100 per cent democratic. Transferring responsibility from the House of Commons to this Chamber would undermine the fundamental democratic responsibility of the other place. The second argument is that a democratically elected second Chamber would be more legitimate. Yesterday, Member after Member pointed out that legitimacy takes many forms, be it representation from doctors, lawyers or whoever it may be. The reality is that the expertise and experience in this place makes us more legitimate as a revising Chamber than would be the case with an elected Chamber that lacked those fundamental attributes.

I say in passing that we keep on talking about this Chamber as a revising Chamber. However, it has been a lot more than that since 1998 because successive Governments—I regret to say that it is still true of this one—have undermined the situation in the other place through the imposition of programming. My own experience on the Front Bench for eight or nine years has been that time and again it is this Chamber, in clause after clause in a Bill, that actually fulfils that primary responsibility. If we are to reform anything, it is that aspect of the House of Commons that is in desperate need of reform.

I will put the matter into some political context. It is well known that time and again in opposition Mr Cameron said that House of Lords reform would be a matter for the third term. None the less, a proposal for reform turned up in the last manifesto, not the manifesto for three Parliaments’ time. It is very puzzling to know why that should be, because the idea that somehow putting that into a manifesto would give a real boost to the votes of the party putting it in—not least because all the parties put it in—is doubtful. None the less, that has been the position of the present leadership of the Conservative Party.

One of the features of the debate over the past 10 years has been the way in which the leadership of each party has become divorced from the views of the majority of the members. That was true for the so-called indicative vote, which Mr Straw introduced in the other place. We still have a difficulty in communicating our views to the leadership.

The other aspect of the debate relates to Mr Clegg. It seems quite clear that Mr Clegg sees his place in history as the great constitutional reformer. We started off with the referendum on the AV vote, and we all know where that got to. Moreover, the coalition agreement says:

“Lords appointments will be made with the object of creating a second chamber reflective of the share of the votes secured by the political parties in the last election”—

another of Mr Clegg’s enthusiasms, no doubt, but quite disastrous. I am not clear whether it was a conspiracy by him to undermine the position of this House, but in all events that has been the effect; we find our membership enormously increased, with all the problems that that has created.

The third of Mr Clegg’s enthusiasms is of course the abolition of this House and its replacement by a totally different system. While, as I say, there are only two arguments for this, there are many arguments against, not least because of the defective aspect of the Bill, which was created after apparently seven closed sessions. We have not seen the minutes of what was evolved, but we now have a Bill that in many respects—these have been pointed out time and again yesterday and today—is extremely defective.

We have here a Bill that is to be considered by committee. One aspect that the committee must consider was not raised at all yesterday; there is no mention of costs in the proposals. I think the House would be grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, for having made calculations that show against a background of economic stringency that we are in danger of creating a Chamber that is vastly more expensive than the present arrangement. I very much hope that those in committee who will consider this will pay close attention to that.

Strangely enough, in almost all our affairs, the murky hand of the Treasury—I speak as one who has been involved in it—is pervasive. It seems to have been absolutely silent about the Bill, and I look forward to the noble Lord, Lord Sassoon—or, at any rate, my noble friend who is to wind up the debate—perhaps spelling out exactly what the costs of this expensive, unnecessary and dangerous exercise are likely to be.

It has been said by the noble Lord, Lord McNally, that the settled view of the Commons has been expressed. That is not so; the whole matter is open, and anyway the House of Commons is a vastly differently place from what it was in the last Parliament. I hope that, as the realisation of what is involved grows in the Commons, and as the dangers to its Members at both constituency level and in the House itself become more apparent, they will join Parliament as a whole in rejecting this Bill, which is dangerous, unnecessary and fails to build on the progress we have made over the last 100 years. Before the election and the increase in numbers, this House was working better than it has probably ever worked before. The important thing now is to preserve it and improve it on the lines set out by the noble Lord, Lord Steel, and others. To go the way this Bill proposes is fundamentally wrong.

[Lord Ryder of Wensum]

My noble friend spoke with great clarity about the disgraceful continuation of this Government in ensuring that every piece of legislation in the House of Commons is automatically guillotined. How does he square that fact with a comment made in your Lordships’ House by my noble friend the Leader of the House, when he said that his main reason for wanting to reform the House of Lords was,

“a more assertive House with the authority of the people and an elected mandate”?—[Official Report, 17/5/11; col. 1279.]

They have an elected mandate at the other end; they have the authority but they are not assertive. Would it not be reasonable to expect my noble friend to persuade his colleagues in the Cabinet to end the ridiculous automatic guillotining of every piece of legislation that comes through this Parliament?

[Lord Higgins]

My Lords, I am conscious of time and I can only say I agree 1,000 per cent with what my noble friend has just said.

Office for Budget Responsibility

Lord Ryder of Wensum Excerpts

Tuesday 6th July 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

I thank the noble Lord for his questions, but I thought that I had addressed the main point already. There has been no disagreement. Nothing has happened. It has always been the case that Sir Alan Budd planned to leave in the summer and that is exactly what he is going to do. My right honourable friend the Chancellor is enormously grateful for the important work that he has done to get the office up and running. As for appointments, it would have been strange to appoint somebody before Sir Alan Budd had even announced his departure. The appointment process for his successor will take full account of the need for continuity.

[Lord Ryder of Wensum]

My Lords—

[Lord Grabiner]

My Lords—

[Lord Strathclyde]

I really do think that it is time to hear from a Conservative Back-Bencher.

[Lord Ryder of Wensum]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that in nine out of the past 10 years Treasury forecasts for growth exceeded the actual growth levels? Is he therefore not entirely entitled to review the process by which government statistics are worked out?

Special Advisers

Lord Ryder of Wensum Excerpts

Monday 7th June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, the figures will be made public when we publish the announcement shortly.

[Lord Ryder of Wensum]

My Lords, can my noble friend explain the main purpose of a special adviser to the Government?

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, these advisers are the personal appointments of Cabinet Ministers. Their job is to help Cabinet Ministers to do their job even more effectively than they would otherwise have done if they had not had such an appointment.