Victims and Prisoners Bill

Debate between Lord Russell of Liverpool and Baroness Thornton

Report stage
Tuesday 30th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Russell of Liverpool (CB)]

I am happy to add my name to these two amendments from the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton. There is no need to speak at length about them; it is essentially about trying to ensure that victims have equality of rights, in this case with prospective prisoners. At the moment, frankly, they are disadvantaged and are put through a series of hoops—if, indeed, they can find out what in theory they are entitled to. I shall say no more than that I entirely support everything the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, has said, and I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, we had a very full debate on this issue in Committee. From these Benches, we are deeply committed to these two amendments. This is a victims’ Bill, and it seems to me that we really need to be doing things to support victims, which is what these two relatively modest amendments do. If the noble Baroness decides to test the opinion of the House, we will support her.

Victims and Prisoners Bill

Debate between Lord Russell of Liverpool and Baroness Thornton

Committee stage
Monday 26th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to move Amendment 148A and speak to Amendment 148B. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Russell, and the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, for their support in this suite of amendments, both of which deal with stalking. They insert two new clauses into the Bill, and they are part of the whole suite of amendments on this.

I will be brief because my noble friend Lady Royall is in the Committee today, and she has been tireless over the years in championing this cause and using every opportunity to find remedies to deal with this pernicious crime, almost always perpetrated by men on women, wrecking lives, sometimes with fatal consequences. These two amendments, and the group following this concerning MAPPS in the name of my noble friend Lord Ponsonby, seek to bring further coherence to law enforcement, record sharing and protection for these victims.

If only the police could see stalking for what it truly is—often a stepping stone on the route to murder—perhaps they would take it more seriously. At present, I am afraid they do not—certainly, it is patchy—and stalking victims are dismissed too easily and too often. They are told, “It’s just online. It will die down. Change your number. Delete your social media accounts. It’s just a lovers’ tiff”.

I will give just one example and then sit down. When the Derbyshire police accepted that they failed Gracie Spinks—who was murdered after reporting her stalker to the police—and when they apologised to her family and promised that lessons would be learned, I could almost feel the weariness of victims, their families, the campaigners and the Victims’ Commissioner in saying, “How often do we have to be told that lessons can be learned when they haven’t been?” That is what these amendments and the ones we have already discussed are about: they seek to make a change. I beg to move.

[Lord Russell of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I was happy to put my name to these to these two amendments, and I am equally happy that the noble Baroness, Lady Royall of Blaisdon, is here. She will go into some current and fairly shocking detail about some recent examples of stalking that show that it is as pernicious and present as ever.

Both of these amendments are proposed in the clear and distinctly uncomfortable knowledge that I think all parties acknowledge: we have some way to go, to put it mildly, before we can say, with any degree of truth, that we have the measure of the huge and insidious problem that is stalking. These amendments propose some changes to MAPPA, including perpetrators in MAPPA, as a condition of potential release and licence, and the creation of a register to make perpetrators subject to notification requirements as a condition of release. The important common theme to both these amendments is the requirement for the Secretary of State to commission reviews to look at the issues and challenges around stalking in a comprehensive and informed manner.

But what is repeatedly and continuously frustrating is that we have proper on-the-ground evidence of approaches to stalking that are proving to be effective. In particular, there is the multi-agency stalking intervention programme—MASIP—which has marked a significant advance in our ability to anticipate, identify and tackle the complex issue of stalking. The MASIP model, thankfully funded by the Home Office, has pioneered this approach in London, Cheshire and Hampshire, and it works. Early evidence is compelling and extremely positive. So one just asks oneself: why is it not possible to do this more widely? The approach co-ordinates activity around both the victim and the perpetrator, and it incorporates an essential pathway to address the fixation and obsession in perpetrators that might be contributing to their stalking offending. The final evaluation proves that it works, so why is it so difficult, first, to acknowledge best practice when it is staring one in the face and, secondly, to implement it more widely?

One frustrating thing—here I refer to an article in today’s newspaper—is some news about the Government’s end-of-custody supervised licence programme, which was introduced in the autumn to relieve some of the huge pressure on our overcrowded jails, enabling perpetrators to be released earlier than their recommended sentence. It was put in as a temporary scheme, but it has apparently now been extended indefinitely. That does not mean for ever; it just means that the Government have given no indication of how long they intend to continue to allow this degree of leniency, the sole reason for which is the huge pressure on our prisons.

The Government rather inelegantly call this the problem of demand and supply in the prison population. If you were to try to explain that terminology to victims, they would find it slightly difficult to understand why supply-side economics should govern the early release of some perpetrators, particularly of domestic abuse and stalking, in many cases without the victims knowing what is going on.

We will make concerted progress only when we acknowledge the complexity of stalking and finally design a proactive and joined-up approach that is implemented consistently across all jurisdictions and agency boundaries and effectively identifies, outlaws and penalises any evidence of the unfairness and madness of what we are allowing today—effectively, a postcode lottery for victims.

Medicines and Medical Devices Bill

Debate between Lord Russell of Liverpool and Baroness Thornton

Report stage & Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 14th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Russell of Liverpool) (CB)]

Does the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, wish to move Amendment 27?

[Baroness Thornton (Lab) [V]]

I thought these amendments were part of the group that was passed on Tuesday?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Thornton (Lab) [V]]

That is what I thought

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Russell of Liverpool) (CB)]

I will go back to Amendment 26. Does the noble Lord, Lord Patel, wish to move Amendment 26?

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Russell of Liverpool) (CB)]

Does the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, wish to move that amendment?

[Baroness Thornton (Lab) [V]]

Yes.

Amendment 26

Medicines and Medical Devices Bill

Debate between Lord Russell of Liverpool and Baroness Thornton

Committee stage & Committee: 6th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 6th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 17th November 2020 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Russell of Liverpool) (CB)]

I have received one request to speak after the Minister. Baroness Thornton.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister for that detailed answer, but as far as I can see, it underlined the point about the fragmentation of patient safety. He is undoubtedly right about the need to change culture. Will the Minister look at this again, because I mentioned the three inquiries in the past 20 years that I knew about very well, and every one of them said very similar things to what the Minister has said? None of them has produced the kind of support that one would want for patients or been the catalyst required here from the patient safety commissioner. Will the Minister go back and think about this again?

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Russell of Liverpool and Baroness Thornton

Monday 19th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Russell of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I want to say one or two words, not least because I thought it might be appropriate to have at least one male voice speaking in this debate about violence against women and girls. I declare my trusteeship of Coram, which contains the Coram Children’s Legal Centre. The centre often gives advice and tries to help the victims of domestic abuse—particularly children, including girls and boys.

As ever, these are probing amendments and we do not expect the Minister to come up with a list of magic solutions. However, we are concerned with two key areas. One is to seek reassurance that the levels and types of co-operation currently in place will, to the best of the Government’s ability, continue to be as effective—and even more effective in the future. The second is to seek reassurance that the sources of funding, some of which are plugging important gaps that we have been unable to fill domestically in the recent past, will not be unwittingly left behind.

Nobody suggests for a moment that Her Majesty’s Government do not care about these things. When I googled what the Prime Minister said about violence against women and girls, I saw that one of her first speeches when she became Home Secretary in 2010 was at a Women’s Aid conference, when she said:

“As both Home Secretary and minister for women and equalities I believe I have a unique opportunity to bring about real change to the lives and the status of women in this country and my ambition is nothing less than ending violence against women and girls”.


I am sure the Minister would agree with that.

We are not looking for chapter, book and verse. The Government have put a huge amount of effort into this. I returned to Google and looked at the Home Office website on violence against women and girls. It has no fewer than seven pages full of a whole variety of initiatives and policy statements that the coalition Government and now the current Government have undertaken and made, so it is not for lack of activity or lack of trying. We are concerned to try to ensure that that momentum continues. We are really trying to make three points. I think we know the answer to the first, which is whether the Government are aware of our concerns. Secondly, are they actively reviewing the content and looking at how to try to sort some of these out? Thirdly, to the best of their ability, can they remedy any of the unintended consequences?

Lastly, I put on the record an apology to the House. Two weeks ago, I fell an unwitting victim to what I believe the President of another country calls fake news. After googling some contributions by the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, I inadvertently attributed to him a mildly scurrilous article that appeared to be in his name in the Sun newspaper—a well-known and respectable organ. However, it turned out not to be the case. I have apologised to him in person, and I am now apologising to the House. My comments at cols. 924 and 925 of Hansard on Monday 5 March were not entirely correct.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

That was a very nicely put apology.

It is important to remind ourselves that European policy currently ensures that victims escaping violence are able to access basic provisions and that restraining orders put on abusive partners apply across the whole EU. Those fleeing domestic violence across borders within the EU have the European protection order—as mentioned by several noble Lords—which is recognised across the EU. There is no guarantee we can see at the moment that this will continue to include the UK. As for women with insecure immigration status, a female migrant worker escaping violence in the UK would need to rely on the social security system, putting them in a weak position. We have to ensure these vulnerable women are protected and safeguarded. If we do not, they almost certainly will not be.

These two amendments are about issues that we have generally addressed in the House, which is that we do not want to see any gaps. We do not want to see Brexit happening and gaps in the provision of protection—in this case, for women and girls facing violence. My noble friend Lady Kennedy explained very ably what assurances we need from the Minister. They are about policy, funding and implementation. I think that every single person who has spoken in this debate has in some way or other mentioned policy, implementation, continuity and assurance. The noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, is completely right that the EU protection order and the EU arrest warrant are absolutely vital in this context.

I thank the Fawcett Society and Her Future, which includes 25 organisations that are intimately and actively involved in the protection of women and girls. They are very concerned about the fact that some of them will fall off a cliff if European funding is removed. They are very concerned about the implications that that will have for women and girls across Europe. From these Benches, I echo that we very much support these amendments and that we are seeking the assurance that many—I think all—noble Lords have raised today.