Superannuation Bill

Debate between Lord Rosser and Baroness Turner of Camden

Wednesday 10th November 2010 Grand Committee

[Lord Rosser]

I hope noble Lords will agree to me moving this amendment as it is not tabled in my name. My noble friend Lord Brett is speaking in the Chamber, and it was not possible to add my name to the amendment yesterday.

This amendment raises the issue of the Government's level of commitment to reskilling and redeployment options for civil servants. During the Committee stage in the other place, oral evidence was taken from the director of the Civil Service workforce in the Cabinet Office. I would like to ask the Minister a bit later about the role of this director, the section or department for which that director is responsible and the extent to which that section or department has been or will be affected by the reduction in posts in the Civil Service.

Evidence was taken in Committee in the other place on how reductions in posts had been dealt with up to now. The representative of the First Division Association said that the workforce had been reduced by more than 80,000, with 20,000 jobs relocated out of London in the past five years, and that this had been done without having to resort to more than about 80 compulsory, as opposed to voluntary, redundancies. He described it as “a wonderful success story”. The director of the Civil Service workforce confirmed that the vast majority of civil servants whose roles had been lost due to reorganisation in the pipeline were nonetheless “gainfully employed” elsewhere in the Civil Service.

In 2008, a protocol was agreed between the Cabinet Office and Civil Service unions for handling surplus staff situations and, most importantly, avoiding compulsory redundancies. It looks as though this protocol has been pretty effective. The question is whether it will continue to be so if we are about to be faced with a much larger and much faster reduction in the workforce than has taken place before. One assumes that while some will be not unhappy to take voluntary redundancy, others will take it because they can see compulsory redundancy just around the corner, and the terms for leaving under voluntary redundancy are more favourable than those for leaving under compulsory redundancy. In all but name, it would be compulsory voluntary redundancy.

However, for many people whose jobs are going to be eliminated, redundancy is not an option they wish to contemplate. For example, they may have a commitment to public service, or their financial and family commitments may mean that a regular income at current levels is crucial, or they may suspect that the prospects of finding suitable alternative employment elsewhere are slim in the current climate. It would be helpful for the Minister to say what the Government intend to do to redeploy and, where necessary, retrain those staff who do not wish to take voluntary redundancy. I understand that if a negotiated agreement is reached, the Government, as part of that agreement, will reaffirm the principles of the relevant protocols, including the protocol for handling surplus staff, and consider how they can be further enhanced to avoid compulsory redundancies.

Just how determined are the Government to avoid compulsory redundancy? The agreed 2008 protocols state that they,

“provide a corporate approach across the Civil Service and relevant NDPBs that will help to ensure that best endeavours are used to avoid recourse to compulsory redundancies for those who want to continue their Civil Service careers”.

I assume that this Government accept that agreement.

Can the Minister therefore explain what using “best endeavours” to avoid recourse to compulsory redundancies for those who want to continue their Civil Service careers means in a situation where job losses are taking place on a much larger scale than previously? What is the maximum number of compulsory redundancies that the Government would regard as acceptable, and within the terms and the spirit of the agreed protocols, bearing in mind the figure for compulsory redundancies given in Committee in the other place?

How long will be allowed for finding an alternative job in the Civil Service for someone displaced, and any necessary retraining given, before the Government decide that redundancy will occur despite the wish of the individual to continue their Civil Service career? How much time and money are the Government prepared to invest in retraining and redeploying individuals whose current job is eliminated and who wish to continue their Civil Service careers?

The 2008 protocols make reference to the role of the Cabinet Office, for which 11 key functions are listed in respect of the protocol for handling surplus staff situations. The first is to establish and maintain commitment to the corporate protocols and ensure that good practice is shared. Another is to work with departments and regional co-ordinators to ensure that all HR contacts have access to information on departmental surpluses and vacancies, nationally and within a regional context. Yet another is to develop appropriate policies that will help in avoiding compulsory redundancies. It is obvious from just those three out of a total of 11 key functions of the Cabinet Office that its role is both crucial and extensive right across government in ensuring that the protocol for handling surplus staff situations is applied in a co-ordinated manner, consistently, thoroughly and fairly and as part of the culture of the organisation.

I referred earlier to the director of the Civil Service workforce in the Cabinet Office who had given oral evidence on the Bill in the other place. Is this the director who is responsible for the Cabinet Office role in relation to the 2008 protocols, including the protocol for handling surplus staff? If not, which director is? Can the Minister indicate how many staff there are in the Cabinet Office engaged in carrying out that office’s responsibilities in relation to the 2008 protocols, including the protocol for handling surplus staff, and whether that number of staff is to be reduced as part of the job cuts in the Civil Service, or increased? If so, increased to what number? The workload will surely increase as a result of the job cuts elsewhere in the Civil Service. Could the Minister provide an estimate of the extent to which the Government consider that the workload in the Cabinet Office section dealing with the implementation of the 2008 protocols will increase as a result of the imminent significant job cuts?

Will the Minister give an assurance that the Cabinet Office will have the necessary staff to carry out its laid-down role in full in respect of the 2008 protocols, including the protocol for handling surplus staff? Will the Minister also give an assurance that the HR functions in the different departments will also be properly staffed to carry out the 21 responsibilities listed in the protocol under the heading, “Role of Departments with surplus people”, bearing in mind that the workload in this area will presumably increase as a result of the job cuts? How many staff do the Government estimate that there will be seeking redeployment and retraining? In particular, how many is that expected to be in the current financial year and the next two financial years, compared with the two previous financial years?

I hope that the Minister will be able to respond to the specific questions I have raised. I hope that the answers that the Minister gives will provide the reassurance being sought that the Government are committed to redeployment and retraining for civil servants, by showing that the necessary human and financial resources will be provided to ensure that the words of the protocol about providing a corporate approach across the Civil Service and relevant NDPBs to ensure that best endeavours are used to avoid recourse to compulsory redundancies for those who want to continue their Civil Service careers will be honoured in full by the Government. I beg to move.

[Baroness Turner of Camden]

I support the amendment, which is admirable in every respect. At times of economic recession, the last thing one wants to do is to add to the numbers of unemployed. The unemployed not only pay no taxes, they draw benefits from the state. Therefore, unemployment is also more and more costly at a time of economic recession; it has to be avoided above all things. Anyone who has done, as I have, a great deal of negotiation on behalf of employees knows that when you are faced with a possible redundancy, the first thing you try to do is to negotiate an agreement with the employer. It is designed to ensure that the people do not become redundant and unemployed, but that they have the opportunity to retrain, are reskilled and are able to remain part of the productive workforce. That is what the amendment is all about. It is entirely admirable and I hope very much that we have a satisfactory response from the Minister.