Energy Bill
Debate between Lord Roper and Lord Jenkin of Roding
Lord Jenkin of Roding
I beg to move the amendment standing in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Roper. My noble friend the Minister will recognise that this is the same amendment which my noble friend Lord Roper moved in my absence in Committee. We have tabled it again to see whether the Minister has had any further thoughts about how she can best protect those wood manufacturers who depend on the same source of wood as that used for biomass by generators. That is what they are frightened of. Indeed, they go so far as to say that if there is no certainty that they will be able to source their raw material in this country, or from the same sources from which they have had it in the past, we will lose the industry. It will no longer invest here because it cannot be sure of getting its raw material. That was the case which my noble friend made in Committee.
I have reread the reply which the Minister gave on that occasion. It is not too strong to say that she dismissed the fear as unreasonable and the measure as one which would cause unnecessary bureaucracy. However, the Scottish authorities have decided that there should be a requirement on those intending to burn biomass as a fuel to make a statement of their sources, quantities and sustainability. I know that there is a voluntary scheme. Indeed, my noble friend made that point in Grand Committee. However, the fact of the matter is that this does not give the wood panel and other wood-using industries the confidence that they need. In those circumstances, have the Government had further thoughts as to whether there might be an advantage in preserving an important industry in this country in terms of the number of people it employs and the fact that it is a UK-based manufacturing industry? Will they give it the confidence to enable it to continue in business? I look forward to hearing my noble friend’s reply. Has there been any change in the Government’s attitude since we debated this in July? I beg to move.
Lord Roper
My Lords, as my noble friend Lord Jenkin has said, I moved a similar amendment in Grand Committee. As he has also said, we felt that the Minister’s reply on that occasion was not as helpful as it could have been. Although the wood panel industry is not large, it has a significant annual turnover and employs both directly and indirectly a significant number of people. If it is possible for appropriate guidelines to be issued in Scotland, it is not totally clear to me why it is not possible to have them here. Obviously, it is a good thing that a voluntary disclosure agreement now exists, but I think that the industry would prefer there to be a requirement regarding disclosure rather than this voluntary agreement. Like my noble friend Lord Jenkin, I shall be interested to hear the Minister’s reply.
Energy Bill
Debate between Lord Roper and Lord Jenkin of Roding
Lord Jenkin of Roding
I apologise for appearing to interrupt the noble Baroness in mid-flow. I just have one question. I had the same problem as the noble Baroness did. I thought, “Why has this clause stand part question been put down and what does the clause say?”. I turned up the Ofgem consultation letter published on the same day as its recent capacity assessment report, which has of course shown that the margins will, by the middle of this decade, become very much smaller. It goes on making hopeful remarks that perhaps there will not be interruptions but an increasing number of people think that there might be. The letter consults on additional balancing measures for the grid. It proposes two of them. I will not go into this in great detail at this hour of the night—we are due to rise in two minutes—but does that have anything to do with this clause? There is nothing in the letter about fees so there may be no connection, but it proposes new methods to achieve resilience to avoid power cuts. It seemed that there might be a connection. The noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, seems not to think so. We will listen to my noble friend replying in due course.
Lord Roper
My Lords, I want to raise a slightly narrower point, but one related to that raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington. The report of the Delegated Powers Committee raised very clearly a point about subsection (3)(b), where money can be specified or determined by the Secretary of State without any reference to Parliament. Your Lordships’ Delegated Powers Committee is very clear, and concludes:
“We accordingly do not find persuasive the explanations in the memorandum that the power conferred by clause 134(3)(b) is appropriate; and we recommend that, unless the House can be satisfied to that effect by further explanations from the Minister, paragraph (b) should be removed from clause 134(3)”.
I would be most grateful if the Minister could give us such a reply.
Perhaps, as I am dealing with the Delegated Powers Committee, I could raise a slightly wider question. We have, of course, had a new report from the Delegated Powers Committee this morning, based on a further memorandum submitted by the department to that committee. It is impossible to find a copy of that memorandum on either the department’s or the committee’s website. I would be grateful if it could in due course be made available to Members who have attended this Committee.