Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing Bill

Lord Rogan Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 11th October 2017 Grand Committee

[Lord Rosser]

I will be brief. It seems that the terms of this amendment are entirely reasonable, since people will surely want to know whether changes are going to be made to the protection arrangements, if and when we leave the European Union. There is a need for people to be clear what the impact is. It may be that there is no impact and so that needs to be clear, but people certainly need to know what the impact is, whether it is negative or not adverse at all. That is what this amendment is seeking. I do not know whether the Minister is going to accept it or not. If he is not, I shall listen with interest to his reasons for saying he cannot.

[Lord Rogan (UUP)]

My Lords, this sensible amendment should be added and I fully support it.

[Lord Callanan]

I start by saying that I fully endorse the purpose of the proposed new clause. In the coming years we will be embarking on major changes in our relationship with Europe, and it is very difficult to predict where the negotiations will end up. Therefore, it is important to begin by offering assurances that the Government would want UK consumers to continue to enjoy strong protections and an effective consumer regime, whether inside or outside the EU. I am sure that is something that all parts of the Committee can agree on. The UK has always been a leader when it comes to providing protection for holidaymakers. After all, as the noble Baroness said, we set up the ATOL scheme in UK legislation several years before the original package travel directive was agreed in Europe. That is a significant point. It means that the ATOL legislation is not dependent on the package travel directive. This Bill will harmonise ATOL with the package travel directive in the immediate term. However, the ATOL legislation and the protection will still exist and remain in place as we leave the EU.

Notwithstanding this, I fully understand why this amendment has been proposed in order that we consider the ongoing impact on consumer protection as we leave the European Union. However, this is catered for in the legal and policy framework already in place. There is already a legal duty on the Government to review under the Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Act 2015. This places an obligation on us to undertake a post-implementation review within five years of passing legislation.

Furthermore, we already have an independent review body in place to provide an ongoing review of the financial protection available for air travellers. The Air Travel Insolvency Protection Advisory Committee— or ATIPAC, the snappy acronym by which it is more commonly known—was set up by the Labour Government in 2000. Its purpose is to provide advice to the Civil Aviation Authority, the Air Travel Trust and the Secretary of State for Transport on policies that should be pursued to protect consumers. The committee consists of representatives of industry, consumers, the CAA and Trading Standards. This means that it is very well placed to provide an informed and independent view on policies. The committee already submits a substantial report to the Secretary of State every year, which is also published on the CAA and ATIPAC websites. This report should draw to the Secretary of State’s attention any concerns on which, in ATIPAC’s view, further action is necessary to maintain strong consumer protection. This includes advice on changes in the market and, where appropriate, their potential impact on consumers and the financial protection arrangements.

I am sure that the committee is already minded to keep a close eye on consumer protection, both before and after we leave the EU. In fact, my colleague the Minister of State for Transport in the other place, the right honourable John Hayes MP, has already asked the committee’s chair, John Cox, to consider this precise point in the ATIPAC 2017-18 annual report. These reports will be submitted to the Secretary of State within four months of the end of each financial year and will, as I said, be published on the CAA and ATIPAC websites at the same time.

I turn now to the specific questions posed by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson. How do consumers know what is or is not a linked travel arrangement? The package travel directive specifies that businesses must inform the consumer whether or not they are purchasing an LTA before they make the purchase. Given the complications that I referred to in my previous answer, the way this will be done in practice will be considered in the consultation that we will publish later this year.

The noble Baroness also asked what will happen to this Bill if we leave the EU with no deal. ATOL will continue, as the amendment states, and this House will decide on any changes that are to be made, deal or no deal. The Government remain committed to strong consumer protection and will continue to be so after Brexit.

In the light of those answers, I hope the noble Baroness will withdraw her amendment.

Civil Aviation Bill

Lord Rogan Excerpts

Wednesday 13th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rogan]

My Lords, the Bill has been widely welcomed during its progress and I, too, am in broad agreement with its principles. However, despite my fear being thought partisan, I would like to say a few words from a purely Northern Ireland perspective, although my remarks are also applicable, albeit to a lesser degree, to other UK regions.

Northern Ireland has many fine qualities which I am happy to wax lyrical about, but its geography brings with it the price of being the most peripheral region of the kingdom. Consequently, aviation—especially anything which touches upon access to Heathrow—is of particular interest to Ulster’s travellers, even more so now, in the aftermath of BA’s takeover of BMI, which has raised many questions about the long-term future of BMI’s current Heathrow slots, presently operating from George Best Belfast City Airport. It is difficult to underestimate how important those slots at Heathrow are for Northern Ireland, particularly for the business community and the tourist industry, attracting visitors from overseas with connections at the Heathrow hub.

While much of the debate about Heathrow quite rightly centres around its capacity and ability to compete in the modern world with other major continental airports, our issue in Northern Ireland is more fundamental —to ensure that Heathrow is accessible in the first place. There is no other practical way to reach Heathrow without direct flights from Belfast. There is no direct motorway link, direct rail link, or underground. Nor is it practical to connect to Heathrow, complete with baggage, from a lot of London’s other airports.

The more difficult it is for Northern Ireland to access Heathrow, the more difficult it is for business people to build that outward-looking, export-driven economy which Northern Ireland needs in order to continue developing. The arguments and evidence for the economic development benefits associated with air links are well known, but access to Heathrow is a two-edged sword for Northern Ireland. If we lose those links, our ability to plug into the global business community is much diminished, but similarly, it will also prove more difficult for inbound traffic, particularly inward investors, to register the Province as a serious investment location if there are no direct connections into the UK’s national hub airport.

While I appreciate that it may be beyond the remit of the Civil Aviation Bill to guarantee slots at any given airport, there should be some cognisance of regional policy within the general aviation strategy. Failure to do so will be to the detriment of the regions in the short and medium term, and will overcentralise economic activity around key airports, especially in the south-east of England, to an extent which may not be sustainable in the long term.

Airports (Amendment) Bill [HL]

Lord Rogan Excerpts

Friday 16th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rogan]

My Lords, I absolutely emphasise to your Lordships’ House that this Bill is not particularly about connections to Northern Ireland, although I fully concede that it has the most effect in Northern Ireland, as we are the most affected. Someone once quipped that if providence had really intended man to fly, it would also have made it easier for him to get to the airport. Who among us has not fought through traffic and timetables to reach a gate in time, or felt the burning frustration of security, misplaced tickets or passports? Yet these are the misfortunes of the few—the trials and tribulations of modern life.

We are debating the plight not of the individual but of millions throughout the United Kingdom regions who are in danger of being debarred from the UK’s only hub airport at Heathrow by the vagaries of geography and aviation horse-trading. I admit that this threat is felt particularly keenly in Northern Ireland, the United Kingdom’s most peripheral region and the one with the least access to Heathrow: no direct motorway link, no direct rail link and definitely no talk of a brand new high-speed rail link. No, the only practical way to get to Heathrow from Northern Ireland is a direct flight connection, something which the Bill seeks to protect in the interests of safeguarding national—national—air infrastructure.

Now, some, usually those trapped within the confines of the M25, have a tendency to suggest that we good folk banished to the fringes of the UK may like to access Heathrow via one of the south-east’s other airports: Gatwick, Stansted or even Luton. While I have nothing against any of the said airports, they are designed and geared to bring people to London, not to Heathrow. Providence may also have made it difficult for man to get to the airport, but to get from airport to airport is truly a task of Herculean proportions.

Getting to Heathrow matters, and here I speak from personal experience of my life outside this House. For the past few decades, I have had the pleasure of travelling the world on business, often to the Far East and further afield. Direct flights from Belfast to Heathrow make that possible. Without that connection, impediments to business start to mount, both in time and cost. Just how do you make a connection in Heathrow if you have first to locate and collect baggage from some other airport such as Gatwick, and then journey by cab or coach to Heathrow? That is not a pleasant prospect, but is one that I suppose I could endure—although I must admit it would probably hasten my retirement and deter me from taking every business opportunity that came my way that involved overseas travel.

More importantly, however, I am a creature trapped to some extent by habit. My ties to Northern Ireland are not purely rational. Emotion clouds my business judgment. Such influences do not weigh upon international business people looking for investment locations. Will they make the effort to visit locations in Northern Ireland when they are required to break their journey with, say, an overnight stay, and then onward travel to another regional airport before hopping on to another flight to Belfast? Some may well persevere, but some—indeed, many—will not.

Simply put, unplugging Northern Ireland’s connectivity with Heathrow disconnects the entire region from the global business community. Business people in Northern Ireland are all too aware of the pitfalls of losing access to our only hub airport on the mainland. The Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce has recently examined the benefits of that link in developing our regional economy’s benefits in three key areas from an international hub: trade, foreign direct investment and, increasingly, tourism. With reference to investment and trade, it is clearly no coincidence that employment hotspots in foreign-owned companies tend to be beside airports. In Northern Ireland, which is a small open economy that is dependent on external sales, one in 10 jobs rely upon foreign investment, and half of those companies can reach their home market only through a hub airport.

Increasingly, our economy is looking towards emerging markets for growth opportunities. However, the evidence is that UK business trades 20 times as much with countries that have daily flights than those with less frequent or no direct service. If we cannot access Heathrow, we will have difficulty accessing these markets. The corollary is that business leaders in the world’s fastest growing economies are being put off from investing in the UK because of a lack of direct flights. Two-thirds of business leaders in emerging economies believe that better air connections from their home countries to European hubs mean that they are more likely to do business there rather than in the UK. If we are having difficulty attracting investors to Heathrow’s natural hinterland, what chance the regions?

My noble friends Lord Laird and Lord Maginnis have alluded to the fact that tourism also remains a key growth area for the province, much helped by the recent and continued successes of Northern Ireland’s three golfing champions, and golfers worldwide now and in the future wanting to play more than ever on our world-renowned links courses that produce such winners. However, our tourist industry is still recovering from the shock and the sights of the Troubles, and has significant ground to cover if we are to match Scotland or the Republic of Ireland in tourism numbers. Over 11 million additional visitors to the United Kingdom are expected by 2021, and many of these will travel from emerging markets. If there is no direct link from our only UK hub airport, how many of these visitors will make the jump across the Irish Sea?

Central government rightly tells the regions that the days of handouts are over and the day of the hand-up has arrived. I am all in favour of that, but it is a two-way process. The Government need to do what they can to create a level playing field between the centre and the periphery. They need to interject to redress market failure. A national hub does not serve the entire nation. By that definition, it is no longer a national hub. That, to me, is a market failing, and I commend the Bill to the House as a means of redress.

People Trafficking

Lord Rogan Excerpts

Thursday 2nd February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rogan]

My Lords, I, too, congratulate the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, on initiating this debate. As he said, our nation can rightly take pride in its pivotal role in abolishing the worldwide slavery trade during the 19th century—a decision taken primarily with regard to the force of the moral imperative to do so. Yet it saddens me that the modern guise of slavery, human trafficking, is on the rise in this country and across Europe. Human trafficking is a vile and foul crime that condemns its victims to the most base and inhumane of treatments, be they men, women or children.

We are all aware of stories from across the kingdom of trafficked people being subjected to abuse of a kind we thought we had largely dispelled from the civilised world. In Northern Ireland, which is hardly a mainstream location for international criminal gangs, the police have rescued around 75 victims since 2009, many connected to the sex trade. As a senior PSNI detective superintendent told the Northern Ireland Policing Board last December, this figure is just the “tip of the iceberg”. There is a need for the United Kingdom to take controlled and concentrated measures to intercept those gangs, both from home and overseas, who are trading in this human misery to supply demands for cheap labour and—

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My Lords—

[Lord Rogan]

My Lords, the clock started at two minutes.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I am so sorry. I apologise to the noble Lord.

[Lord Rogan]

Can I start again at two minutes? While tackling this supply may require greater resourcing for the UK Border Agency and the police forces throughout the kingdom, tackling demand is a more difficult issue. It strikes me that we need to do more to drive home the message that those who are abusing trafficked people, particularly in the sex trade, need to be aware that they are complicit in an offence which is akin to slavery. They should face severe consequences for their actions but unfortunately, for too many, this is currently a crime without fear of consequences. That needs to end.

For instance, customers who pay for sex with those who have been trafficked—people who are clearly under duress or false pretences—should face the prospect of being charged with rape. As the law stands, successful convictions would be difficult to secure but it would certainly help put out a clear message that society will not turn a blind eye to this problem. The same moral imperative which lay before Parliament to eradicate slavery in the 19th century lies before this generation: to do all that it can to eradicate human trafficking in this world.

Postal Services Bill

Lord Rogan Excerpts

Wednesday 4th May 2011 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Rogan]

15: Clause 2, page 2, line 19, at end insert—
“( ) The Secretary of State shall submit a report to the Scottish Parliament, the National Assembly for Wales and the Northern Ireland Assembly setting out the impact of the proposals in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland respectively, including the effect on post offices, small and medium-sized businesses, rural communities, pensioners and people with disabilities.”

[Lord Rogan]

My Lords, I wish to move Amendment 15 standing in my name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Laird. This amendment seeks to ensure that there is adequate consultation with the devolved Governments, small and medium-sized businesses, rural communities, pensioners and people with disabilities prior to the disposal of shares in Royal Mail. In light of the news I read this morning that 9,000 post offices could close under the current proposals, this amendment seems all the more important and pertinent.

As the Bill has progressed through the House, noble Lords from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have been keen to ensure that it protects the current level of postal services in those nations. We have sought, and received assurances from the Minister, that consultation will take place with service-user groups prior to any changes being made to the universal service obligation. This is most welcome. I now ask the Minister to ensure that that same sensible process is undertaken for largely the same reasons prior to the disposal of shares in Royal Mail.

In Committee, the Minister referred to Sections 3 and 7 of the Communications Act, which gives Ofcom a duty to have regard to a specified range of groups when carrying out any of its functions. In particular, Ofcom must have regard to the needs of four user groups: persons with disabilities; the elderly; those on low incomes; and the devolved Administrations. This amendment refers to matters that I believe fall outside Sections 3 and 7. It relates to the need for consultation to take place with the devolved Administrations as soon as is practical after the Minister has taken the decision to dispose of shares in Royal Mail.

I am somewhat bemused that Clause 2 does not already contain this provision. Noble Lords on all sides of the House have been keen to ensure that this privatisation does not result in services being cut back in remote rural areas. I believe that noble Lords are equally keen to ensure that what we broadly call “vulnerable service users” do not see their postal services denuded. Let us be clear: this legislation is not without controversy. I believe that it will benefit from a far greater sense of legitimacy if Ministers are able to report on their intentions to the devolved Administrations and key service user groups as the Government undertake a share disposal in Royal Mail.

The postal services are not devolved matters for logical reasons, as my noble friend Lord Empey so eloquently put it in a previous debate. Royal Mail is a part of our national infrastructure which is highly valued by the British public. I would not want to see the type and quality of postal services that we receive differ from one area of the United Kingdom to the next. It is precisely because this is not a devolved matter that I believe the Government must go that extra mile and ensure that their intentions in respect of privatisation are communicated to the devolved Administrations.

As many noble Lords have explained in Committee, small businesses in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are particularly reliant on Royal Mail services and it would seem sensible that this user group is consulted prior to disposal, particularly in the current economic climate. Other key service user groups, such as people living in rural communities, pensioners and disabled people in the devolved Administrations could be affected by the sale of Royal Mail, and as a result deserve to be consulted prior to Royal Mail moving from the public to the private sector.

This amendment, and others similar to it, that were moved during Committee reflect deeper concerns about the impact that privatisation of Royal Mail will have on services in our communities, particularly in rural areas of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Noble Lords set out in Committee a number of worries they have about the lack of a commitment from the Government to use this Bill to ensure that postal services are continued at a level users currently enjoy, and that no one user group is impacted on negatively.

We are equally concerned that plans to privatise Royal Mail will be forced on the devolved areas without a meaningful consultation with the devolved Administrations. There is real concern about the consequences of Royal Mail privatisation on service users in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Failure to consult specifically in these areas will lessen the credibility and legitimacy of the privatisation—a potential problem that is easily rectified by Ministers agreeing to the terms of this amendment.

I trust that your Lordships will be able to support this well intentioned amendment, which aims to increase the legitimacy of this legislation and ensure that the Government's plan to privatise is fully communicated through the proper channels to those who most rely on Royal Mail services.

[Lord Low of Dalston]

My Lords, I apologise to the House for missing my cue at the beginning of this group but I should like to speak briefly to my Amendment 14, which is in this group. It seeks to ensure that service-user groups are consulted before Royal Mail is sold off and would require the Secretary of State to bring a report to Parliament setting out how the universal service provider will maintain the minimum requirements contained in the universal postal service obligation. Before I do that, I want to say a word about the debate we had on this issue on the second day in Committee on 14 March. In that debate, the noble Lord, Lord Razzall—I am not sure whether he is in his place today—whom the Minister described as having all the subtlety of an air raid, said:

“If we are to preserve the reputation of this House for knowing the facts and having expertise, we really must not say things that are not true … I said earlier, it is more expensive for the Royal Mail to deliver to Norwood Green or Hampstead than to maintain the service to the Orkneys and Shetland … if we are to be the serious House that knows the facts, we should take that on board”.—[Official Report, 14/3/11; cols. 113-14.]

Having a concern for the truth which is at least as great as that of the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, I undertook to follow up the matter and come back to it on Report, if it was necessary to set the record straight. The Minister helpfully sent us a note on the subject and I have also taken the matter up with the Royal Mail. From this it appears that the cost of delivering the universal service in urban areas other than London is approximately 11 per cent lower per postal item than the average cost across the country as a whole. The cost of delivering the universal service in rural areas is approximately 11 per cent higher per postal item than the average cost across the country as a whole. However, the cost of delivering the universal service in London is an anomaly at approximately 10 per cent higher per postal item than the average cost across the country as a whole, largely due to higher wage rates in London.

From this it is apparent that the cost of delivering to London and rural areas is roughly the same and far higher than the cost of delivering to other urban and suburban areas. Royal Mail comments that, other than in London, delivery of an item to an urban area is on average 22 per cent less costly than delivery to a rural area. I repeat that the claim of the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, that it is more expensive to deliver to Hampstead and Norwood Green than to Shetland and the Orkneys is not quite correct. I have actually toned down what Royal Mail said. As Shetland and the Orkneys are more remote than the average rural area, delivery costs substantially more per item than it does in London—more than double. It is not clear where the noble Lord was getting his figures from. He was probably comparing wage rates that are higher in London; and he was probably not comparing like with like. Myriad other costs are involved in delivering to places such as Shetland and the Orkneys. I hope that that is now clear and that we can put that matter behind us.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Wilcox]

I turn first to Amendment 14. As I said earlier, Ofcom will be required to report annually to the Secretary of State on its activities, including the provision of the universal service, and the Secretary of State is required to lay this report before each House of Parliament.

In performing all its duties—those in this Bill and those in the Communications Act 2003—Ofcom must have regard to various areas and groups as set out in Section 3(4) of the 2003 Act. These include: the needs of persons with disabilities, of the elderly and of those on low incomes; the opinions of consumers in relevant markets and of members of the public generally; and the different interests of persons in the different parts of the United Kingdom, of the different ethnic communities within the United Kingdom and of persons living in rural and in urban areas.

That list covers all the groups set out in the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Low, and I hope that he will be reassured by that. As I said in Committee, those requirements on the performance of Ofcom’s duties will apply to all future regulation of the postal sector. That is far more enduring than a snapshot assessment at the time of a sale.

The noble Lord, Lord Low, mentioned the power in Clause 33 to amend the minimum requirements of the universal service. We will come to that power when we discuss amendments to Part 3, but I know now that the power in Clause 33 is subject to the affirmative procedure.

On Amendment 15 in the name of the noble Lords, Lord Rogan and Lord Laird, to which the noble Lord, Lord Rogan, spoke this evening, I reiterate what I said in response to a similar amendment laid by the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, in Committee. The overarching objective of the Bill is to secure the universal postal service in the United Kingdom. It is about securing a postal service that is available to all in the United Kingdom and delivers to all addresses in the United Kingdom.

As I said in Committee, the Government have already produced an impact assessment on the Bill’s proposals. The assessment considered the impact of the proposals on all parts of the United Kingdom, together with the impact on small firms, rural communities and disadvantaged groups.

As I said earlier, Ofcom will report annually on its activities, including ensuring the provision of the universal service throughout the United Kingdom. In addition, we expect Royal Mail to continue to report on its quality of service performance, broken down by postcode area, so that there continues to be transparency about the provision of the universal postal service to all parts of the United Kingdom.

With regard to post offices, the Government recognise the need for accessibility by specific groups. The report by a Post Office company required by Clause 11 must include information about that. Clause 11 also requires that the Secretary of State give a copy of the report to Ministers in the devolved Administrations, as well as, of course, laying the report before this Parliament.

The information that is already in the public domain and that which will be provided as a result of the Bill will provide long-term transparency on the protection of the universal postal service and the accessibility of post offices throughout the UK. Those reports and the activities of the regulator will, as I have explained, take into account the needs of disadvantaged groups and those in rural areas.

I hope that, with these reassurances, the noble Lord will withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Rogan]

My Lords, I thank those Members who have spoken to my amendment. I have listened to the Minister and thank her for her remarks. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 15 withdrawn.