North Wales Abuse Allegations

Debate between Lord Roberts of Conwy and Lord Taylor of Holbeach

Tuesday 6th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Roberts of Conwy]

My Lords, I have a copy of Lost in Care, the late Sir Ronald Waterhouse’s report—all 937 pages of it. It is a very thorough piece of work, as one would have expected from a High Court judge. The terms of reference are spelled out in this report, as is an explanation of why he ordered that names should not be published, largely for the protection of the victims, as in rape cases. Does my noble friend really think that, after all these years, any new evidence will actually emerge as a result of these further inquiries? I have heard most of the media reports over recent days and, frankly, I have heard nothing new. There is also the further point that the report contains a subsidiary report by Sir Ronald Hadfield, the assessor of the police activity in this context. His report comes right at the very end of the Waterhouse report and is critical of some of the police operations.

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I am very pleased that my noble friend has made that contribution to the debate. If I disagree with him, it is not because I do not respect his experience and the fact that he was active in politics in that part of the country at the time when this report was being produced. He has a copy and has no doubt studied it. However, if I thought that nothing more was going to come out of this further investigation, all I would say is, “Fine. That is very good”. If there is nothing more to be found, we can rest content that the matter is indeed closed. However, if we find that there is other material, we should know of it. We are right to seek to pursue this matter even though many of the individuals involved may long ago have disappeared.

Government: Role of the State

Debate between Lord Roberts of Conwy and Lord Taylor of Holbeach

Tuesday 2nd November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Roberts of Conwy]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to reduce the role of the state.

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My Lords, the big society is about putting more power into people’s hands—a massive transfer from Whitehall to local communities. What we have announced in the spending review will help communities and individuals to take on more responsibility through community empowerment, through opening up opportunities to deliver public services to other organisations, and through social action such as the national citizen service, enabling young people to play a more active role in society.

[Lord Roberts of Conwy]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that reply. Is it not absolutely clear from the alarmingly high structural deficit that this Government have inherited and the inevitable reductions in spending after the spending review that the state has become hyperactive and has overreached itself to an unaffordable, unsustainable extent, as it has done before under Labour? Some of us remember 1975-76 and the IMF marching in. Is it not clear that there must be a change of approach and that, among other things, the private and voluntary sectors in their broadest sense must be strongly encouraged and empowered, as my noble friend said, to take up more of the responsibilities currently foisted on the state?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My noble friend makes a valuable point. That is why we are working to open up public services to small businesses, voluntary organisations and social enterprises and to enable those currently in the public sector to spin out from the state through mutualisation. The Government are also providing support for the voluntary, community and social enterprise sectors via a £100 million transition fund and the establishment of a big society bank, which will provide new resources of finance.