Brexit: Court of Justice of the European Union

Debate between Lord Richard and Baroness Goldie

Thursday 30th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I thank my noble friend for a very helpful observation. It is the case that one implication of leaving the EU is indeed that laws will be made and enforced not in Brussels but in Westminster, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast. That will bring to our legal systems throughout the United Kingdom an overdue clarity—and also, if I may say so, a sense of sovereignty and of being in control of the laws that we make.

[Lord Richard (Lab)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Goldie]

Let me try to unpick some of the stitches in that closely woven interrogation. First of all, we all agree that the rule of law is important—there is no question about that. Respect for the rule of a law and a suitable judicial mechanism within any jurisdiction of any country is necessary to ensure that the rule of law can be interpreted and applied. I disagree with the noble Lord that in some way the CJEU and the principles of Roman law will be abruptly terminated when we leave the EU. I have made it quite clear that there is a recognition that EU law, which derives from many sources—indeed, my own Scottish legal system is derived largely from Roman law—will not stop being an important component of the body of UK law on leaving the EU. It is not that the jurisdictions of our courts are diminished; it is that we will be taking back control of law-making and law enforcement. That is a very important distinction.

[Lord Richard]

My Lords, whatever the Minister says about the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, will she re-emphasise the Government’s position that they do not intend to withdraw from the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights?

[Baroness Goldie]

These are technical issues which of course will be reflected upon—that is absolutely clear. It is perfectly obvious to all that when you begin the mechanism of withdrawing from a very complex set of principles and jurisdictions in international law, questions will arise. But the Prime Minister has made it crystal clear that when we leave the EU, we will return sovereignty—including law-making and the enforcement of law—to the UK.