NHS: Brexit-related Risks

Debate between Lord Reid of Cardowan and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Thursday 5th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

It would be a big mistake for anybody to tell the British people that they voted the wrong way. I point out to the noble Baroness, however, that, whatever was on any side of the bus, as a result of the funding plan announced by the Prime Minister there will be £394 million a week more in real terms for the NHS by 2024. I am also pleased to say that there are more EU staff working in the NHS today than two years ago.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, the problems and challenges of Brexit will only add to the massive challenges which, in our enthusiasm for the birthday of the NHS, we sometimes underestimate. These include demographic change, an ageing population, new inventions and therapies, new pharmaceutical products and so on. Although I very much welcome extra money, this problem will not be solved just by extra money; it will require massive organisation, radical restructuring, and innovation in technology on a massive scale. That will not be achieved by one party on its own. Why, therefore, do the Government constantly refuse the recommendations of some noble Lords and committees in this House to establish a cross-party consensus on this and take party politics out of it to the maximum extent? That is the only way—accompanied by money—that we can save the NHS for the next 70 years.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Lord knows better than most the challenges of transforming the National Health Service, and is right about the big challenges that we face—although I think it is better to look at them as opportunities. He is also right that reform has to go hand in hand with extra money. We promised the extra money; we now need to see the reform. Every part of the health service—the department, the NHS, and others—needs to drive that through. On his point about consensus, I do not think there is anything stopping that consensus: the Government want consensus. We do not necessarily think that it needs to be in the form of a royal commission or a parliamentary commission. We want to work with all corners of this House and the other place to make sure that there is support for a broad plan for the NHS for the next 10 years.

NHS: Waiting Lists

Debate between Lord Reid of Cardowan and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Monday 26th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness is quite right to highlight this issue. There simply are not equivalent waiting times for CAMHS. As she mentioned, we have introduced the first waiting times for eating disorders and early intervention in psychosis. I think she will have been pleased to have seen in the Green Paper published before Christmas that a new four-week waiting time for NHS children and young people’s mental health services will be piloted. That will be rolled out in the near future.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, in the eight years before 2010, waiting lists and waiting times were brought down dramatically. In the eight years since 2010, waiting times and waiting lists have risen dramatically. What does the Minister think happened in 2010 to change that?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I think we all know what happened in 2010, but it might be worth pointing out that 10 years ago, half of patients waited more than 18 weeks for referral to treatment and that is now only about 10%.

National Health Service (Mandate Requirements) Regulations 2017

Debate between Lord Reid of Cardowan and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Wednesday 6th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Reid of Cardowan]

No.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

That is the truth.

Next year the NHS turns 70. As my noble friend Lady Redfern said, it has a unique place in our society. The mandate to NHS England for 2017-18 goes further than ever before to ensure that we not only continue to deliver the best care and support for today’s NHS patients but also deliver the reform and renewal needed to sustain the NHS for the future. We know there is more to do, which is why we have put our commitment to support NHS England and the NHS in delivering the five-year forward view at the heart of the mandate. We will continue to do so. I hope that I have persuaded all noble Lords, including the noble Lord opposite, that their fears are unfounded, and that the noble Lord now feels in a position to withdraw his Motion.

NHS: Shared Business Services

Debate between Lord Reid of Cardowan and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Tuesday 27th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

The noble Baroness will know that I was not in post at the end of last summer, so I cannot explain why there were the number of Statements that there were. I know that Governments of perhaps different hues have also tended to put out Written Statements, so I do not think any political party is entirely innocent in this regard. The point is that the information was made available to Parliament.

On the point about cost settlement, there are interested parties here and the costs need to be settled once we have got to the bottom of exactly what has happened and once those inquiries and indeed the investigations into the potential for patient harm have been settled. I underline that as yet no instances of patient harm have been discovered.

Finally, the point about privatisation is quite an important one. The noble Baroness will know that the private sector is involved in the delivery of all parts of the NHS. Breach of contract, which is what this is, and the covering up of mistakes happen in all parts of the health service—public, private, shared and all the rest of it. It is not a case of “private sector bad, public sector good”: we know that from instances like Mid Staffs and so on. The core point is that we need very strong data security standards, and that is why the Government will be responding in due course to the Caldicott review and the review of these issues by the CQC.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

On one of the points the Minister responded to, perhaps I may politely offer him a piece of advice. Everyone here knows that officials advise and Ministers decide—but it is not convention, protocol or indeed courtesy to announce in Parliament that advice has been given by Ministers’ officials and he has decided to overrule it. That is not just a matter of useless etiquette; it is a fundamental aspect of maintaining the trust between Parliament and the Minister and between the Minister and his officials, which will serve him well in future.

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I take the noble Lord’s advice very seriously. Indeed, I note that he, as a former Secretary of State for Health, understands what is going on and the dynamics within the department. I would say only that the NAO report has described a set of actions that have taken place and why they have taken place. It has described the decision-making process, which is why the Statement responds to the content of the NAO report as it was set out today.

NHS: Debt

Debate between Lord Reid of Cardowan and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Monday 23rd January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Boothroyd]

Order. That is a very good way to begin the week. My question is brief and very much to the point, and concerns the transportation of patients to and from hospitals. We are all aware that many patients often have to go to major hospitals—travelling 20 or 30 miles—on a daily, weekly, fortnightly or thrice-weekly basis. The cost must be horrendous; is this part of it? Can the Minister give any indication of the cost of transporting patients to and from hospitals?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I will write to the noble Baroness with specific details of cost. It is certainly true that if you have to go to or be taken to a distant hospital for care, that is more expensive both in transport and setting terms. Part of the transformation that the NHS needs to make is that more care should be delivered in primary settings and in the community, which by definition will be closer to home.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan]

My Lords, first, I apologise to the noble Baroness; I thought it was the Liberal Benches. Has not the noble Lord missed the point of the Question? In the first sentence of his first answer, he said his first challenge was an ageing population. Is it not now obvious to even the most obstinate that cuts in social care have a knock-on effect on the ageing population in putting pressure on the NHS? It is not just that the deficits have trebled; 27 hospitals have now declared that they cannot provide comprehensive care, and more than 50 hospitals are asking for outside assistance every day of the week. The situation is getting worse every week. Will he not take the advice of my noble friend and urge his colleagues to reverse the cuts to social care in the Budget, which are not only affecting care provision but having a disastrous effect on provision through the National Health Service?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

It is certainly the case that one part of the system impacts on the other parts, whether that is primary, secondary or social care. There is no denying that and I do not seek to do so. On the picture the noble Lord paints of worsening deficits, in fact, the picture in 2016-17 is considerably better than it was in 2015-16. It has been helped not least by the sustainability and transformation plans. We are putting £1.8 billion into trusts, 95% of which have accepted control totals to get a hold of that financial sustainability. Extra funding is going in. There is a big increase this year for the NHS budget, which will help, as will the extra money for social care; but of course the challenges are there.