Violent Disorder

Lord Reid of Cardowan Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

It is nice to see the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, again. We have seen each other in a number of guises over the years, and I am as surprised as he is to find myself here today responding to these issues. He raises an extremely important and valid point. Much of the content that fired the organisation of some of the events we saw, not just in Southport but across the whole United Kingdom, began its life in an internet or social media post that encouraged poor behaviour, not just in the UK but, as the noble Lord said, outside the United Kingdom.

The Online Safety Act was passed by both Houses in the last Parliament and was the child of the previous Government. The level of implementation of some of the measures in that Act needs to be looked at. My right honourable friend Peter Kyle, the Secretary of State for DSIT, has met with social media providers to look at the internet and what role it played, and we will review the policy over time. This is an organically growing issue, but the points the noble Lord mentioned are extremely valid, are registered by this Government and are ones that this Government will look at and take forward in due course.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome my former colleague to the Dispatch Box again, though in a different Chamber. First, I congratulate the Government on their response to those who used violence and hatred during the period of which we are speaking. They were decisive and fair and observed the separation between politics and operational capabilities. I think it reassured a great many people in this country that the Government acted so quickly and so decisively.

Secondly, I will say how much I welcomed the Minister’s comments about addressing—to use an old cliché—not only crime but the causes of crime. There is no doubt in my mind that there are deep underlying causes to what we saw. The Minister mentioned online social media. I believe they are instrumental but not the underlying causes. In my view, the underlying causes lie in the poisoned chalice that the Government have been given of apparently unlimited immigration, huge reductions in public services and the language used for the past 10 years describing immigrants as “dangerous aliens” whether they are legal or illegal immigrants. Can my noble friend assure me that the Labour Government will address all three causes over the next few years: the nature and level of immigration, the language used about it and the protection of public services? If we do not address those causes, this sort of thing will happen again.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

Again, I am grateful to my noble friend for his contribution. He knows as much as anybody in this House, given his previous role as Home Secretary, about the difficult challenges that we face here.

To assure him on the Prime Minister’s commitment, we want to review how the policing capability was undertaken. That is not to interfere with operational policing but, following the Prime Minister’s announcement of the national violent disorder programme, to try to bring together good practice, look at where there needs to be resilience and make sure that forces support each other, which is a natural part of the policing landscape. It is extremely important to review what happened. As has been mentioned, we need to look at what happened at Harehills; there may not have been sufficient policing to deal with it. There is a whole range of issues and we can learn lessons. It is not for a Minister to direct chief constables, of the Met or anywhere else, but it is for a Minister to hold them to account and ensure that people, as mentioned by both Front Benches, are protected as a whole.

My noble friend also mentioned the whole question of migration. I spent a long period over the past 10 years as shadow Immigration Minister and know that it is a toxic debate at times. In my view, immigration falls into three or four categories: immigration for everyone from the centre forward of a football team through to a professor or somebody else coming to this country because they are an expert in their field and bringing a contribution to the growth of our economy, versus people coming on a boat seeking asylum or people coming here completely illegally. The debate needs to be put into the context of how we manage that. We need to detoxify the debate to ensure that we deal with asylum and speed up asylum claims; deal with people who have come here illegally, because we must have integrity in the migration system; and make sure that, in doing that, we do not turn away people who will help us grow our economy or bring skills and challenges to our society.

That is all on the agenda. I am still surprised that we are only seven weeks into this Government. We will look at those issues and I will report on progress to this House on a regular basis, as well as being held to account over the next few years.

King’s Speech

Lord Reid of Cardowan Excerpts

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Lords Chamber

Moved on Wednesday 17 July by

[Lord Reid of Cardowan]

That an humble Address be presented to His Majesty as follows:

“Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty’s most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament”.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Timpson) (Lab) (Maiden Speech)]

My Lords, it is a privilege to open this debate in my new role as Minister for Prisons, Probation and Public Protection. It will not have escaped your Lordships’ attention that, apart from the 40-minute session we just did, this is my maiden speech, so I will say a few words before moving on to the substance of the debate.

I start with a thank you—for the welcome that I have received from your Lordships but also from Black Rod, the doorkeepers, the catering staff and the many colleagues who work tirelessly to keep this place running.

I am here, I hope, because of my experience, including as CEO of the Timpson Group and having grown the family retail business from 300 shops to over 2,000. I learned a lot about leadership and responsibility, and let me say at the outset that trust and kindness are vital traits to me as a leader. As CEO, I learned that if people are happy in their jobs and feel valued, trusted and cared for, they will perform day in, day out. Sometimes, life throws challenges at us. If this impacts work it is the job of a caring company to offer support, not penalise the individual. I have found over the years that, when you care for people, they care back. It is an approach I intend to bring to this job in how I support the thousands of front-line prison and probation staff working hard in the system every day to keep the public safe.

I also bring experience as a former chair of the Prison Reform Trust. I am very clear that prisons must be available as a punishment and a deterrent, but currently our prisons are not working: they create better criminals, not better citizens. That makes the public less safe. We have to make prisons rehabilitative and make sure that, when offenders are given a second chance, they can seize it. That is good for society because it reduces crime.

The criminal justice system exists to keep the public safe, but it should not hold back the one in four working-age people in the UK with a criminal record from getting jobs. That is a huge, largely untapped talent pool. Let us not forget that nearly 80% of offenders are reoffenders. At the same time, ex-offenders are less likely to reoffend if they have a job within a year of release, so helping them to find work both cuts crime and supports our economy to grow. It is a win-win that we cannot ignore.

That was one of the drivers behind me setting up the Employment Advisory Boards network, which now operates in 93 prisons. I am grateful to all those involved: the board networks in England, Wales and Scotland, and every business leader, board chair and prison governor who has played their part. In 2021, when we started, only 14% of prison leavers had a job after six months of release; by March 2023, it was over 30%. Most importantly, I thank the prison staff across the country who make initiatives such as this possible, as well as their colleagues in the probation service, who continue the efforts to get people on the straight and narrow when they are released. They work every day with some of the most complex people in our country, inside one of its most complex systems.

I will mention the late Lord Ramsbotham, who was a Chief Inspector of Prisons before coming to your Lordships’ House. He encouraged me to carry on working with offenders when other people were not so convinced. I will also mention my friend the noble Lord, Lord Carter of Haslemere, who is a trustee of the Prison Reform Trust. I thank my fellow “justice league” members, my noble friends and sponsors, former Prisons Minister and deputy chair of the Prison Reform Trust, the noble Lord, Lord Bradley, and my Ministry of Justice colleague, the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, for their sage advice and support.

Before I finish this maiden element of my speech, I thank my family, who support me in this endeavour and in all things—my wife, Roisin, and my children, Bede, Patrick and Niamh. I thank my dad, John, who, alongside my late mother, Alex, brought our family up in a mad house full of foster children, allowing me to see the challenges young people can face and the potential they have when someone gives them a chance in life.

I turn to the substance of this debate and the home affairs and justice elements of the Government’s agenda. I put on record my gratitude to His Majesty for delivering the gracious Speech. It has become immediately clear to me, on entering your Lordships’ House, that there is a huge amount of knowledge, experience and wisdom on these important subjects in this place. I look forward to a wide-ranging debate, with thoughtful contributions from noble Lords on all sides. Although I am nervous as I stand here for my first speech, I was more nervous about the prisons Statement, the contents of which I will not repeat now. I am telling myself that all noble Lords were once in my position and are still here, so it cannot be that difficult to get the hang of it.

Reducing crime is key to achieving one of this Government’s guiding missions: to take back our streets. Violent crime in our country, particularly knife crime, is too high. Over the last decade the most serious homicides involving knives have risen sharply, with young men most likely to be both the perpetrators and victims. As set out in His Majesty’s gracious Speech, we will tackle this scourge on our society by bringing in a ban on ninja swords and other lethal blades used in attacks, and by introducing strict sanctions on the executives of online companies which fail to comply with the law. To prevent young people being drawn into gangs, we will strengthen the law on those who exploit children for criminal purposes, and bring together services that support at-risk teenagers.

Anti-social behaviour also blights our communities. The police recorded 1 million incidents last year and the crime survey estimates that more than one-third of people in England and Wales have experienced or witnessed anti-social behaviour in some form. We will introduce new respect orders for adults who consistently offend and make it possible to fast-track public spaces protection orders, so that it is quicker and more straightforward to clamp down on street drinking.

Shoplifting increased by 30% last year compared to the year before, and the retail sector estimates the figure to be up to 40 times higher than that. This not only puts additional strain on businesses already struggling in a difficult economic environment; it can also lead to assaults on staff who try to prevent thefts. No one comes to work to be assaulted, so to counter this we will create a specific offence of assaulting a shopworker and introduce stronger measures to tackle low-level shoplifting.

His Majesty’s gracious Speech also includes a range of proposals to rebuild neighbourhood policing, get officers back on the beat, deliver higher policing standards and improve vetting processes to ensure that only the best candidates join the police’s ranks. We will also ensure that the police can respond robustly to domestic abuse, rape and other sexual offences and strengthen the law to improve how the police respond to secure justice for victims of spiking. This will aid our mission to halve levels of violence against women and girls within a decade.

Continuing on that subject, let me now turn to victims and the courts. In recent years, justice in our country has too often been delayed and, in the worst cases, denied. This has proved particularly true of women and girls who are the victims of violence and abuse. As your Lordships will know, lengthy delays for rape victims have become commonplace in recent years, which may cause additional harm to victims’ mental health and well-being. We will deliver on our manifesto commitments to allow associate prosecutors to work on appropriate cases and roll out specialist rape courts. We will work with the judiciary to fast-track rape cases, to make sure that the system can deliver swifter justice to victims of this terrible crime.

We will also strengthen the powers of the Victims’ Commissioner to hold the system to account for how it delivers for victims, and make changes to require all offenders to attend their sentencing hearings. This will ensure that their victims, and bereaved families of deceased victims, see justice being done and that perpetrators face the consequences of their actions, just as the public would expect.

I turn to another matter of great importance to the public: borders and immigration. Noble Lords will be aware that the previous Government’s Rwanda scheme was not the deterrent to small boat crossings that it was intended to be. There have been no enforced relocations over the last two years and just four volunteers have gone to Rwanda. In that same period, the Rwandan Government have received £290 million of taxpayers’ money. Most asylum seekers who have arrived by small boat are currently stuck in a backlog under the previous Government’s Illegal Migration Act. They are eligible for accommodation but have little prospect of being removed, with asylum hotels currently costing the taxpayer nearly £8 million every single day. This Government are clear that we need a new approach.

We will bring forward legislation to fix the broken asylum system, making it more efficient so that we can end hotel use through clearing the backlog of asylum cases, ensure individuals from safe countries are fast-tracked for return to their country of origin, and end the agreements with Rwanda to save over £100 million in future payments. We will redirect that money into the new border security command, which will be given the tools to crack down on the criminal gangs at the root of this problem, including stronger powers to investigate organised immigration crime. We will ensure there is a strong deterrent for those involved, including offences such as advertising migrant smuggling services, and others relating to the supply of materials required by the gangs.

I turn now to the Hillsborough disaster, the victims of which suffered an unimaginable tragedy. The devastating impact on the bereaved and survivors was compounded by deliberate attempts by those in power to hide the truth and to put their own reputations first. The report from the former right reverend Prelate, Bishop James Jones of Liverpool, into what happened laid bare the horrendous experiences of the Hillsborough families, brought about by an unacceptable defensive culture in too many areas of the public sector. The recent report by the inquiry into the infected blood scandal, which affected thousands of people in our country, highlighted similar failings.

We will deliver on our manifesto commitment to implement a “Hillsborough law” to place a legal duty of candour on public servants and authorities. This will be a catalyst for a changed culture in the public sector by improving transparency and accountability, helping to ensure that no other family has to endure the same ordeal. We will take action to improve assistance for bereaved persons and core participants at inquests and public inquiries, to ensure that families are able fully to participate. This includes delivering the Government’s manifesto commitment to provide legal aid for victims of disasters or state-related death.

I now move on to another tragedy from which government, the emergency services and the events industry must learn important lessons. The country was horrified by the events at Manchester Arena seven years ago, when 22 people lost their lives and countless more were injured as a result of a senseless terrorist attack. This Government are determined to ensure that such a tragedy never happens again. That is why we will bring forward Martyn’s law. This legislation is intended to strengthen the security of public premises and events. Our measures will require those responsible for certain premises and events to take steps to mitigate the impact of a terrorist attack and to reduce harm in the event of a terrorist attack occurring.

The measures required will vary according to the capacity of the premises or event, ensuring that the public are protected without placing unnecessary burdens on smaller businesses. In bringing forward this legislation, the Government are deeply grateful to Figen Murray, mother of Martyn Hett, who was murdered in the Manchester Arena attack. Her campaigning has been crucial in driving forward this legislation and raising awareness about security measures at public venues.

Before I finish, I would like to mention arbitration, which I know will be of interest to your Lordships. I am aware, however, that there will be plenty in His Majesty’s gracious Speech that I have not mentioned and which your Lordships will be keen to discuss. I welcome the debate to follow, and I would like noble Lords to know that my door is always open should they wish to discuss particular issues, either in this place or elsewhere.

Arbitration is a critical part of our legal landscape, enabling parties to resolve disputes privately and without the need for costly litigation. As your Lordships will be aware, the Arbitration Act 1996 has long been seen as a gold standard across the world; however, almost 30 years later, it requires reform to bring it up to date, as highlighted by the Law Commission’s helpful 2023 review. We are bringing forward changes to ensure that the law in this area is able to adapt to a changing business landscape, support efficient and effective dispute resolution, continue to attract international legal business to the UK and promote our economic growth.

His Majesty’s gracious Speech set out the new Government’s approach for changing our country through the justice system, with less crime, fewer but better supported victims, stronger borders and more security. It is a plan to set us on the path of national renewal and I look forward to debating it with your Lordships in more detail over the coming weeks and months.

Shamima Begum

Lord Reid of Cardowan Excerpts

Tuesday 27th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, I am afraid I go back to my earlier Answer: it would be inappropriate to comment further on this specific case given the potential for further legal proceedings.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, when I was Home Secretary, I was told on a number of occasions that I could not take such action if it left someone stateless. I think that was confirmed by what the Minister said in his qualification. I do not hold a candle for Shamima Begum, and have never been known as a sympathiser of Islamist practices or beliefs, but is it not inappropriate and illegal to remove someone’s citizenship if it leaves them stateless? I would like a yes or no answer, because I may have been told the wrong thing when I was Home Secretary.

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

The noble Lord is right. The Home Secretary has the power to deprive any British national of citizenship status on conducive to the public good grounds, providing that such action does not leave the individual stateless. In this case, the Court of Appeal found for the Government on all grounds.

Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps

Lord Reid of Cardowan Excerpts

Wednesday 29th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, we are very clear that Iran poses an unacceptable threat to Israel. We have long condemned Iran’s destabilising activity throughout the region, including its political, financial and military support of several militant and proscribed groups, including Hamas, Hezbollah and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. As I said earlier, we are committed to working with the international community to ensure that Iran abides by international laws and norms and is held to account for its destabilising activities in the region.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, I understand that these are fine judgments. The suppression of terrorist organisations can often diminish our operational intelligence, so it is not an easy decision. However, the last time I intervened on this subject was in 2010 in the House of Commons. The Government have had 14 years to review the situation, which the Minister told us was constantly under review. Can he tell us anything that has happened during those 14 years which suggests that we should do other than ban this organisation?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I pay tribute to the noble Lord’s extensive experience in this area and his perspective on it. These are obviously finely calibrated judgments. I am afraid that I will not speculate on what information has been considered over the past 14 years; it would be unwise of me to do so.

Asylum: Channel Crossings

Lord Reid of Cardowan Excerpts

Tuesday 27th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

As I have said many times in this House while the noble Baroness has been present, the reason why asylum seekers are not initially allowed to work is in order to prevent a very large pull factor encouraging illegal migration.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

Can the Minister please give us the total figure of the number of asylum claims that have not been concluded? He gave a figure of 92,500, which, presumably, is the number of cases that have not been started. However, there may be many that have been started—a file has been opened—and which are excluded from that 92,500. Can the Minister give us the total number of asylum claims that have not been finished or started?

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

Of course, I do not have those statistics to hand but they are available on the GOV.UK website. The latest statistics release, covering 1 January 2023 to 31 March 2023, shows that during that period 3,793 people arrived in the UK having crossed the channel by small boat. The next quarter of statistics is due to be published on 24 August 2023. As the noble Lord is aware, the Home Office needs to ensure that information intended for publication meets the standards and requirements set for departmental publications.

Public Order Act 1986 (Serious Disruption to the Life of the Community) Regulations 2023

Lord Reid of Cardowan Excerpts

Tuesday 13th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

With respect, no one is trying to stop this Chamber expressing its view on this or anything else. What it is trying to stop is the assumption that it is this Chamber that makes the final decision. It is not. It is essential for the maintenance of the constitutional arrangements we have that we always respect the elected House, which, as my noble friend said, has to own those policies because it is directly responsible to the electorate. So it is not about discussing, it is not about revising, it is about who takes the final decision.

[Lord Pannick (CB)]

I totally understand that, and it is customary in this House to ask the other place to think again. I am not suggesting that we should have the final word; I am suggesting that tonight we should vote down these regulations and invite—require, ask—the other place to think again and to consider whether it really thinks it appropriate to proceed by way of what we all agree is a constitutional outrage, as the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, said. There are occasions when we have to stand up for constitutional principle, and this is one of them. If the other place sends it back again, no doubt we will give way because it is the elected House, but we are entitled to express our view in an effective manner. It is all very well regretting, but it has no effect whatever.

I agree with the comments of my colleague Tom Hickman KC and his co-author Gabriel Tan in the blog that they put on the website of UK Constitutional Law Association. They wrote, and they are right, that the Government are seeking to obtain through the back door of Parliament what they have been denied at the front door. It is, they say, a

“remarkable act of constitutional chutzpah”,

and they are absolutely right.

It does not stop there because, as the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, rightly said, the original Explanatory Memorandum to these regulations—I have not seen today’s amended, improved version—nowhere mentions that these amendments were defeated when they were proposed to the Public Order Bill. It is worse than that, as the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, knows, but it is astonishing that the Explanatory Memorandum at paragraph 3.1, under the heading “Matters of special interest to Parliament: Matters of special interest to the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments”, has this entry: “None”. Is that not extraordinary? Does it not demonstrate the contempt which the Government have in this context for the proper processes of legislation in these matters?

Police Misconduct Cases

Lord Reid of Cardowan Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for not accusing me this week of being incompetent, at least. I will do my very best to find out the answer to that question.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, would the Minister like to address the question asked by my noble friend Lord Hunt? It was not about an ongoing investigation. It was a point of principle. Does he accept that there are circumstances under which the Home Secretary can carry out an investigation under the statutory powers already available? As a matter of principle, does he accept that?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

As a matter of principle, yes, I do.

Civil Servants: Reduction in Numbers

Lord Reid of Cardowan Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

What I can say to my noble friend is that the reductions will be laid out in more detail in due course. I cannot give her an answer, because I suspect that there is not one at this time.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

Can the Minister provide figures for the effect of the Covid lockdown on passport applications, and of the rise or diminution in Covid lockdown regulations on subsequent passport applications?

Nationality and Borders Bill

Lord Reid of Cardowan Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 5th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, may I courteously suggest to Ministers that, if I have judged the flavour of the opinions in the House correctly, they could quite easily convey to the Home Secretary the feelings of the House when they tell her that there was absolute concord of views between not only my noble friend Lord Rosser and the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, but my noble friends Lady Chakrabarti and Lord Blunkett and myself? I have never known any other subject on which that could have been said.

When the Home Secretary said that the asylum system was broken, I confess that I felt a frisson of déjà vu. Like my noble friend Lord Blunkett, when I began to hear the suggested proposals to remedy the situation, I had a faint echo in my mind of suggestions many years ago from civil servants which seemed to bear a faint resemblance to some of the ideas that are now being put forward. My Minister at the time, my noble friend Lord Coaker, is nodding in agreement. We rejected them because they were wrong, either morally, politically or internationally, in terms of creating an international alliance, or simply because they would not work. So in all sincerity I ask the Minister to please convey this back, because I will give the reason for it at the end.

Like other noble Lords, of course I am concerned. As we have heard, the Bill was published before any formal response to the consultation. The UNHCR disagrees with the Home Secretary’s statement that it complies with our obligations under the 1951 Act. It would allow the Government to create offshore camps. It will not work. It has not worked anywhere. Every time I see one of these headlines coming out of the Home Office, I wonder how extraordinary the next one will be. I was waiting for somebody to suggest St Helena or Elba, which have been used in the past against intransigent foreigners such as Napoleon. Every proposal like this that is put forward must be sustainable and realisable, otherwise people will recognise that it is a political debate of headlines that is going on and nothing is changing in terms of making the system better.

These and other points concern me, but my greatest worry about this piece of legislation, as well as the other things that have been brought forward on this subject by the Government, is that they always address themselves to the symptoms of the problem and never the underlying causes. The reality is that for 40 years, ever since the Iron Curtain was raised, or at least fell apart, there have been accelerating drivers of emigration. When I was Home Secretary, 200 million people got up every year and moved somewhere else, not just to visit but to stay. War, persecution, famine and climate change, which was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Desai, and others, have driven unprecedented numbers of refugees around the world, probably about 80 million. At present, the globalisation of media and communications has made it plain that there is a better world somewhere else that I can go to if I am suffering in that fashion. We have internationalised travel: the EU’s external borders are porous and the EU’s determination to provide limitless internal travel throughout Europe through the Schengen process offers ample opportunities for anyone coming in from their external borders.

I will make this point. The Government will not solve this problem by trying to put a stopper in the distance between Dover and Calais. This is a much deeper strategic problem that will be solved only by international co-operation, international concord and international plans. That is why it is a tragedy that we have had cuts in the aid budget—which are hardly calculated to address the underlying problems—and the abolition of the Department for International Development. Likewise, leaving the EU reduces our ability. A mad spat between the Prime Minister and the President of France and name calling are hardly calculated to do it—but it is only at that level that we would do it, and it would be better and wiser under those circumstances to underpromise and overdeliver, rather than overpromise and fail to deliver, and I am afraid that once again that is what this Bill will do.

Law Enforcement and Security (Separation Issues etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Reid of Cardowan Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I thank the Minister, who I think is aiming for the Stakhanovite prize for her endeavours at the Dispatch Box.

I say right at the beginning that it is a bit of an obfuscation for the Minister to say that the regulations are scenario-neutral. They are in the limited sense, in that whatever the nature of the deal, they will be put through, but of course they are being introduced in the whole context of Brexit, which is the biggest change imaginable in the scenario for law enforcement and counterterrorism. The Minister’s allusion to the neutral scenario reminded me that one old philosopher used to say, “We have free will”, but, as he pointed out, we do not have free will in circumstances of our own choosing. So the regulations might be scenario-neutral but they are in the wider scenario of Brexit, and that is what I want to refer to today.

Obviously, as the Minister implied, I, like others in the House, will not oppose these regulations. It is in all our interests to have confidence in our law enforcement capabilities and operations after Brexit. Therefore, I do not intend to oppose them but I want to make some observations.

The first and most obvious to everyone is the desperate lack of time available for our law enforcement agencies to adjust to any new framework or operational procedures. It is obvious that we are now only weeks away from the end of the transition period and still the two parties—like children in the playground playing “Don’t push me or I’ll push you”—are issuing statements every week without any word of substantial advance in them. Meanwhile, our law enforcement and security services still do not know what legal regulatory framework they will be operating under after New Year’s Day. Nor do they know what the practical impact or implications of any security and criminal justice deal will be for their ability to keep the public safe.

Will the Minister therefore tell us how the Government have engaged with our law enforcement agencies or, for that matter, with their European counterparts to ensure that the appropriate arrangements will be in place so that relevant cases can be actioned with confidence and not delayed or stopped? Later, I will refer to ECRIS, the European Criminal Records Information System, to which the Minister referred. Obviously, we need confidence that outstanding cases will not grind to a halt, as that would diminish our ability to tackle criminality and prevent terrorism.

The second issue arising from this timing pressure is the uncertainty caused. We do not know, even at this stage, whether we will have a deal or no deal. Regardless of the assertions that this measure is scenario-neutral, it will have an effect on the practical application and operational capabilities of our law enforcement agencies. In November, the Minister—not the noble Baroness but the Minister in the House of Commons—rather blithely told the House that if negotiations

“do not conclude successfully, we will move back to pre-existing tools and powers.”—[Official Report, Commons, 5/11/20; col. 528.],

as though this was, again, scenario-neutral. But presumably those pre-existing powers and tools were less effective and less satisfactory than the subsequent arrangements made within the European Union, otherwise there would have been no point in adopting the new arrangements. To reinforce that point, Mr Martin Hewitt, the chair of the National Police Chiefs’ Council, laid out the consequences, and I could not put it more concisely myself. He said that

“the loss of some or all of the tools will mean that, even with contingencies in place, the fallback systems will be slower, provide less visibility of information/intelligence and make joined-up working with European partners more cumbersome.”

That could not be plainer. Does the Minister therefore accept that a failure to conclude negotiations successfully will inevitably involve a deterioration in our capacity to combat crime and insecurity, as laid out by Mr Martin Hewitt, who presumably knows a little bit about these matters? I have some specific questions for the Minister. In her opinion, what is the likelihood of that situation arising? What contingency plans are in place for the loss of these vital tools? What is the certainty regarding Europol arrangements or the Schengen Information System? What about the loss of the European Criminal Records Information System, which effects about 4,000 requests every month? If I understood the Minister correctly, applications that are already in that system will continue. I accept that, but what about the 4,000 a month that will happen after 1 January 2021? What are the arrangements and availability of information for those? What are the details of the fast-track extradition arrangements, which are to replace capabilities enjoyed under the European arrest warrant? Is it not the case that diminished capabilities on data and information sharing would seriously damage the fight against crime, terrorism and insecurity?

The fact that such questions remain unanswered at this late stage indicates just how precarious the position is. As I said at the beginning, I am not opposing this. Today’s regulations are necessary, but they are not sufficient to inspire confidence or engender certainty that our agencies will maintain the standards of law enforcement that they have hitherto reached in order to fulfil our legal commitments on law enforcement and counterterrorism. That is why I give them my very qualified support.