Treasure (Designation) (Amendment) Order 2023

Lord Redesdale Excerpts

Tuesday 28th March 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Vaizey of Didcot (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, who, as we have heard, was responsible for this important legislation when he was the Heritage Minister.

The debate has prompted me to recall my early days as a Minister in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport in 2010. The Crosby Garrett helmet, which the noble Lord referred to, was discovered in May 2010 as we came into office and became a bit of a cause célèbre. As he was speaking, I googled the helmet and discovered that it was the most popular subject in an obscure tradition that has fallen into abeyance, “Ask Ed Vaizey”, where I had the idiotic idea of asking members of the public to send me questions as DCMS Minister, which I then promptly answered on a YouTube channel. I have no idea what the answer was because I did not want to play YouTube loudly in the Moses Room while the noble Lord was speaking. However, although there were only two sessions, I think, the most popular question was about the reform of the Treasure Act. Of course, that reform never happened under my watch. It took a dynamic, forward-thinking and energetic Minister to bring these important reforms before us today.

The Treasure Act and the Portable Antiquities Scheme were one of my first headaches when I was the Minister in 2010 because, at that time, the Treasury was asking all departments to find savings. I have to say, I was not strongly aware of the Portable Antiquities Scheme but I soon came to understand its importance, its value and, dare I say it, its value for money. It is that classic British institution: a win-win for all parties involved. In the great scheme of things, it costs very little money indeed; its impact is absolutely enormous; and it brings together two communities that are, in theory, diametrically opposed to each other—metal detectorists and archaeologists.

There are many other countries where the stand-off between archaeologists and metal detectorists can be very detrimental to heritage but I am glad to say that, because, as the noble Lord pointed out, the Portable Antiquities Scheme works so effectively and is stewarded so well, it has brought these two communities together. The archaeologists understand that metal-detecting is a huge passion. There are 40,000 metal detectorists in the UK who go about their business every weekend. They have been immortalised in an award-winning television series, “Detectorists”, which has taken the culture of British metal-detecting all around the world. Detectorists will find things in the ground, but thanks to this scheme, they now know exactly to whom they can take the find. They can have it recorded and catalogued and, if it is of importance, they can potentially expect to receive a reward. Also, because the landowner potentially benefits as well, there is an incentive for them to work with metal detectorists to organise official metal-detecting days to discover objects.

The scheme works extremely well. This subtle but important change will extend the opportunity to record and acquire more treasure finds. I know that there is some debate in the archaeological community about pushing the reform even further to mimic the scheme that exists on the Isle of Man, where worked stone and pottery can also be considered treasure if it is of a unique character and deemed important enough for our cultural heritage. However, I understand the department’s position; they want to see whether this change works as effectively as possible.

The Portable Antiquities Scheme is an unsung but important part of our heritage ecosystem. The only time that I ever managed to get any publicity for it was when I went religiously every year to the British Museum’s exhibition of finds discovered in the previous year under the scheme. As a Minister, it was one of my highlights of my year. One year, I picked up an object, having forgotten to put on the white gloves required to handle an object of such beauty and fragility, and at last I found a way to get the Portable Antiquities Scheme on to the front page of the Daily Mail.

I commend these changes.

[Lord Redesdale (LD)]

My Lords, I must start by declaring an interest as patron of the Redesdale Archaeology Group, which was formed recently after the excavations in Northumberland of High Rochester. I raise this because I spent last summer happily shifting vast amounts of dirt—that seems to be what archaeologists do more than anything else. We had two very keen metal detectorists as part of that archaeological dig, Richard Wilson and Alan Grey. Through their immense work, going after every single ping in the ground, we found one silver denarius after two weeks. Happily, we extended our knowledge of High Rochester, a Roman fort, and found two phases of an occupation that we did not know about before, but talking to them summed up how difficult it is to be a detectorist. The wonders of the hoards that we talk about are something most detectorists do not find.

One aspect of the Portable Antiquities Scheme that is rarely raised is that millions of objects that are reported will never find their way into a museum but, without that scheme, we would not know of those objects in the first place. Following the two previous speakers, I can say that I have never been a Minister and probably never will be but, as one of the founders of the All-Party Archaeology Group, I have spent years lobbying on behalf of the Portable Antiquities Scheme.

What is unusual is that this is a debate where we are not asking for more money or to carry on the existence of the scheme. This is one of the areas I would like to raise because it is difficult to see how the provisions of the Treasure Act could be implemented without the scheme. The scheme started via the work of Roger Bland and is carried on by Dr Michael Lewis under the auspices of the British Museum but its survival should not be taken for granted. There were a number of occasions when it looked like the scheme would not be able to go forward because of budgetary constraints. I ask the Minister: is it not time to start thinking about whether the scheme should be put on a statutory footing? Although the DCMS has been generous in its provision, that does not automatically mean that the scheme would survive if a different Administration came in with different priorities.

On the new code of conduct, which is set out very well in a new video on the Portable Antiquities Scheme’s website, there is one area that causes most concern to detectorists: the time it takes objects to go through the process of being assessed as to whether they are treasure. The new code of conduct sets out a timescale by which that should happen but the major block—it always has been the major block—is time in the coroners’ courts. Getting to the coroners’ court, and the coroner having the requisite knowledge, has been a major issue.

In the past, it has been mooted that a specialist coroner could be appointed specifically to deal with treasure, which would massively reduce the time taken and introduce a level of expertise that would cut down significantly the questions being raised about the objects themselves because there would be a knowledge base. That would help detectorists come to a conclusion about whether objects are treasure. Are the Government thinking along these lines? It would not only save time; time no longer being taken up in coroners’ courts means that it could also save a great deal of money.

On that basis, these statutory instruments are to be welcomed. I thank the Government for their support of the Portable Antiquities Scheme but I very much hope that, looking forward, it will be understood that the Treasure Act will be difficult to maintain if that scheme is not in existence.