Copyright (Regulation of Relevant Licensing Bodies) Regulations 2014

Lord Razzall Excerpts

Wednesday 26th March 2014 Grand Committee

[Baroness Buscombe (Con)]

My Lords, I should like to speak briefly on these provisions, which I welcome. The regulations give the Secretary of State a reserve power, and I think that this must be emphasised to all those who have expressed concerns over the past few months in relation to the Government’s progress following the introduction of the new legislation.

It is very important to emphasise that these are backstop reserve powers which can be used to close any gaps that may emerge in the self-regulatory system. This is nothing new. The advertising industry’s self-regulatory system has backstop powers invested in Ofcom to intervene.

Put simply, those powers work and the industry trusts them. The system remains light touch. I believe that it is in the best interests of the industry to have such a system which can be trusted. It needs to be sufficiently robust and flexible to protect the interests of all those who benefit from collecting societies. The success or effectiveness of a self-regulatory system is dependent on all those who manage that system, so if the system fails it is important to have reserve powers to deal with breaches robustly but, as we have heard from the Minister, in a very light-touch way through three stages. I genuinely believe that that is reasonable.

If there is a breach, it may affect the reputation of the system as well as those who are subject to it. I believe that these provisions will protect the light-touch self-regulatory system.

[Lord Razzall (LD)]

My Lords, I join the noble Baroness in welcoming these regulations. I wish to raise with the Minister four concerns which have been raised by PRS for Music. I am not sure whether he has had the benefit of its representations on these four points.

First, paragraph (2) of regulation 9 provides for information to be given within two weeks of receipt of the request. I understand that that time limit was not included in the consultation process. Does the Minister envisage that the ombudsman or the co-reviewer can extend that time limit if that is relevant to the particular inquiry for information that is made?

Secondly, paragraph (1) of regulation 9 can impose an obligation for information to be supplied “for any purpose”. That is an extremely wide provision and there is concern that this is hardly light-touch regulation. Does the Minister have any idea what constraints would be imposed on the requirement to supply information for any purpose?

My third issue is a fundamental one. Regulation 10 provides that penalties may be imposed on a licensing body itself. However, some of these licensing bodies will be voluntary, non-profit-making organisations owned by the members themselves. Therefore, the members would ultimately be liable for any penalties that may be imposed. However, the regulations are being introduced for the benefit of the members. What factors does the Secretary of State envisage taking into account in imposing any such penalties?

I think that my fourth concern is easily answered. There is a provision for fees to be charged to whichever relevant collective management organisation they are imposed on. There is a concern that it should be made clear that the fees should be charged only to a collective management organisation which is being targeted, rather than being spread more widely.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing the regulations. I declare an interest as I have received sums of money from ALCS in the past and therefore am part of a collecting society. Like other noble Lords, I support this approach which is a sensible expression of backstop powers and will be a light-touch operation. It will probably not be as rigorously regulated as was suggested by Hargreaves in the original report, but I do not think that that is necessarily a bad thing. The consultation and the accompanying debates reflect the fact that there is a good system out there which works well. Therefore, it is not necessary to introduce draconian powers and the measure being introduced is an appropriate balance between two things.

Having said that, there are two impacts and it would be helpful if the Minister would respond to them as I did not hear him mention them in his opening remarks. The first, as is set out in the papers, is the proposal that deals with an issue raised through Professor Ian Hargreaves’s review on digital opportunity. It anticipates work that is going on in Europe on similar issues, so the collective rights management directive, of which I understand a final text is now available, casts a shadow over this operation. I wonder whether the Minister could sketch out where he thinks there are differences in the current approach.